BlackFlareSide
Member
Doesn’t look to bad. Builder said I could push it up to 7000rpm without much drama.
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Second build up from the short block
- Thread starter BlackFlareSide
- Start date
BlackFlareSide
Member
What size pulley do you think I would need to get 10 psi?
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BlackFlareSide
Member
This has nearly identical specs as YSi
2200x
Internal Step-Up Ratio: 3.45:1
Max Speed: 65,000 RPM
Max Boost: 30+ PSI
Max Flow: 1,950 CFM
Max Power: 1,400+ HP
Peak Efficiency: 78%
YSi
Internal Step-Up Ratio: 3.45:1
Max Speed: 66,000 RPM
Max Boost: 30+ PSI
Max Flow: 1,600 CFM
Max Power: 1,200+ HP
Peak Efficiency: 78%
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Jamie V
Well-known member
Not 100% sure but 10psi at like 7,000 rpms won’t be that much boost at all down low where the motor will spend most of its time.
He has stated he wants to go pretty fast. The ysi will absolutely do it. The smaller blowers won't feed that motor properly. IMO though he will probably need a custom lower pulley. Also I would get some Griptec puppies for your uppers. Even with small uppers I'm betting slip will be almost non existent. I wish I had tried them out when I was supercharged. For the record I have a 9" lower and 3" Griptec upper on my dad's truck spinning to 6500 in 1st gear. No sign of slip. Another great option would be to pulley the truck to run max impeller speed at all times and use a wastegate to control pressure. Would be pretty cool.
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Jamie V
Well-known member
Comparing your dads Gen 2 to a Gen 1 as far as pulleys is apples to oranges. The Gen 2 blower has ZERO flex and a idler pulley right next to the upper pulley.
We are running a 3.80” upper on Tommy’s truck with a 9.25” lower and shifting it at 6,000 rpms will put the Si trim at max impeller speed (52,000) that’s a 3.80” with tons of belt contact, and a lot less side load on the front main bearing.
With a YSi you could use a 10” lower (would require a custom lower crank pulley hub, Gen 2 10” ring and water pump/timing cover and WP pulley) a 3.70” upper and shifting at 7,000 rpms would put the YSi at 65,000 rpms. To do that with a 8” lower you’ll need a 2.95” upper
Not sure how you pulley it to max all the time? And that just generates a ton of heat if you could.
Gary, The biggest issue isn’t going to be getting 10 pounds of boost. The biggest issue is that if it makes 10 pounds of boost at your shift points that it’s going to make about 2 pounds of boost when you’re trying to take off which is going to feel very lazy.
Now, a Ti trim (I know you have a YSi now) has a max impeller speed of 55,000 (vs 65,000 of the YSi) and has 1,400 cfm max (vs 1,600 of the YSi) so you’ll only loose 200 cfm up top but gain a TON across the board. A 8” lower and 3.47” upper on a Ti (which means you won’t need anything custom pulley wise) would put you right at peak impeller speed at 7000 engine RPM.
I know you’re going to try and put that YSi on there but I’m convinced you’ll be disappointed and then you’ll be trying to sell/trade a used YSi vs an unused one.
BlackFlareSide
Member
I'm looking at the compressor maps and I'm seeing about 2000 impeller rpm difference between the Novi 2000 and the YSi at 10 psi/800 hp. Looks like about the same difference, 2000 impeller rpm, at 7 psi/500 hp, and the YSi is still 78% efficient at that level, and the Novi is down to 68%.
The Ti doesn't appear to have nearly the lungs of the Novi or the YSi.
I can't see anything in the compressor map that would convince me that there's something inherently wrong with the YSi on Gary's combo. It may not be optimum, but I don't think 800-1000 hp getting feet wet with a blower is going to be a disappointment!
I mean if he wants ultimate efficiency and low end response, it can't have a belt...
The Ti doesn't appear to have nearly the lungs of the Novi or the YSi.
I can't see anything in the compressor map that would convince me that there's something inherently wrong with the YSi on Gary's combo. It may not be optimum, but I don't think 800-1000 hp getting feet wet with a blower is going to be a disappointment!
I mean if he wants ultimate efficiency and low end response, it can't have a belt...
Jamie V
Well-known member
v1 h/d
I'm with you. He is gonna need to spin it anyway to make decent boost on that high flowing motor. The ysi is much better suited if you want to go past say 700hp to the tire. The Novi and T trim won't have the cajones to go much further. I already had a Novi MAXED out on a 351... 427 with those heads would be anemic. The ysi is a much more powerful unit. I would still try and pulley as much as you can and run a wastegate. That way down low response will be great and you can manage boost pressure with a spring. Also it is easy to upgrade to a custom lower hub to run big lowers. I have one I would probably sell now that I'm turbo.I'm looking at the compressor maps and I'm seeing about 2000 impeller rpm difference between the Novi 2000 and the YSi at 10 psi/800 hp. Looks like about the same difference, 2000 impeller rpm, at 7 psi/500 hp, and the YSi is still 78% efficient at that level, and the Novi is down to 68%.
The Ti doesn't appear to have nearly the lungs of the Novi or the YSi.
I can't see anything in the compressor map that would convince me that there's something inherently wrong with the YSi on Gary's combo. It may not be optimum, but I don't think 800-1000 hp getting feet wet with a blower is going to be a disappointment!
I mean if he wants ultimate efficiency and low end response, it can't have a belt...
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Jamie V
Well-known member
I'm looking at the compressor maps and I'm seeing about 2000 impeller rpm difference between the Novi 2000 and the YSi at 10 psi/800 hp. Looks like about the same difference, 2000 impeller rpm, at 7 psi/500 hp, and the YSi is still 78% efficient at that level, and the Novi is down to 68%.
The Ti doesn't appear to have nearly the lungs of the Novi or the YSi.
I can't see anything in the compressor map that would convince me that there's something inherently wrong with the YSi on Gary's combo. It may not be optimum, but I don't think 800-1000 hp getting feet wet with a blower is going to be a disappointment!
I mean if he wants ultimate efficiency and low end response, it can't have a belt...
Jeff, your not seeing the point of the YSi vs Ti/Novi 2000
The YSi has a different step up ratio and requires way more rpm to hit those numbers. That’s gets difficult with pulley combos on our trucks.
Jamie V
Well-known member
Derek, tell us what pulleys Gary should use to do this.
If it was me? I would run a custom hub. You can run a 8.6" lower without changing water pump. I already did it. With a 3.25" upper at 7000 rpm he will be near max (rated) impeller speed. If he does decide to change timing cover/ water pump then he has lots more options. With a Griptec upper pulley I'm telling you it will be much better. Seen them work first hand on a couple different set ups. I really wish I ordered a griptec for my Novi. Would have raw data to back it up. With that said I still managed to see 23lbs boost with my Novi with proper belt tension/alignment. Did require some diy bracing but I did it. With whatever blower he uses he will fight slip and bracket flex. May as well use a blower that will meet his end goals. And he already has it.
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BlackFlareSide
Member
V1 h/d Ti trim
Performance Specs
Internal Step-Up Ratio: 3.45:1
Max Speed: 55,000 RPM
Max Boost: 26 PSI
Max Flow: 1,400 CFM
Max Power: 950 HP
Peak Efficiency: 75%
V7 YSI
Performance Specs
Internal Step-Up Ratio: 3.45:1
Max Speed: 66,000 RPM
Max Boost: 30+ PSI
Max Flow: 1,600 CFM
Max Power: 1,200+ HP
Peak Efficiency: 78%
OK, we all know that I’m new to this. And I’m pretty sure everybody knows I’m not an engineer. But doing the math on these two units looks like the exact same unit that is capable of being driven 20% faster. Same step up ratio.
Driving the Ti 20% faster would give an impeller speed of 66,000 and provide 260 additional CFM x 78% efficiency is roughly 200 additional CFM.
I’m not sure if this is correct but it seems like it to me.
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It will be waaaay down in efficiency.
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BlackFlareSide
Member
I’m just trying to understand the differences not trying to be a smarty
I didn’t find compressor maps to compare.
YSI has a bigger inlet and discharge than Ti. Might be completely different chargers.
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Jamie V
Well-known member
There is a lot of info here to go over.
It depends on your goals now & down the road. If your looking to make over 1,000hp then your going to have to use the YSI and just do what you have to to drive it.
Putting an 8” lower just isn’t going to cut it. The YS (and now YSi) was developed for the renagade class. Their high spinning engines needed something with a higher impeller speed capability. This unit was designed initially to be used with a cog set up. You can run as small of a pulley as you want to with a cog because there’s no real tension or slip issues.
If I was in your shoes I would run the YSI, but I also would not do what Derek is saying.
Some of us have been doing this for so long that people just assume that we’ve never experienced what they’re talking about. We used to all run Ricard racing 2.95” upper pulleys trying to spin the blower fast enough without slip. Pulleys like that have cuts in the pulley to give grip to the belt. The only problem is that it tears the belt up over time.
I would have another custom lower pulley hub made up made so that way I did not have to run a super tiny upper pulley with tons of belt tension and have to fight belt slippage issues. To do that you’ll need a timing cover and water pump from a SN95 mustang. This will move the water pump back out of the way so you can run a 10# lower pulley. For that water pump and timing cover to work you will need a custom water pump pulley to line up with the factory accessory drive belt. This will allow you to run a much larger upper pulley that will help big time with belt slippage issues which you will most definitely experience with an engine that will rev as fast as yours does.
Now, if you’re not looking for every ounce of horsepower out of your motor and you want something that will make a bunch of power on the street and have a lot of low and boost I would 100% run the Ti trim.
Jeff is correct, you can spin the Ti higher but it will make a lot more heat than the YSi above 55,000 rpms.
The YSi will make more power on the big end but you will sacrifice some down low. To offset what you will lose down low with the YSi You will most likely need a higher stall converter so the engine can jump right up into the efficient area of the blower.
It’s a trade off thing, each one has advantages over the other and you have to decide what your goal for the truck is.
It depends on your goals now & down the road. If your looking to make over 1,000hp then your going to have to use the YSI and just do what you have to to drive it.
Putting an 8” lower just isn’t going to cut it. The YS (and now YSi) was developed for the renagade class. Their high spinning engines needed something with a higher impeller speed capability. This unit was designed initially to be used with a cog set up. You can run as small of a pulley as you want to with a cog because there’s no real tension or slip issues.
If I was in your shoes I would run the YSI, but I also would not do what Derek is saying.
Some of us have been doing this for so long that people just assume that we’ve never experienced what they’re talking about. We used to all run Ricard racing 2.95” upper pulleys trying to spin the blower fast enough without slip. Pulleys like that have cuts in the pulley to give grip to the belt. The only problem is that it tears the belt up over time.
I would have another custom lower pulley hub made up made so that way I did not have to run a super tiny upper pulley with tons of belt tension and have to fight belt slippage issues. To do that you’ll need a timing cover and water pump from a SN95 mustang. This will move the water pump back out of the way so you can run a 10# lower pulley. For that water pump and timing cover to work you will need a custom water pump pulley to line up with the factory accessory drive belt. This will allow you to run a much larger upper pulley that will help big time with belt slippage issues which you will most definitely experience with an engine that will rev as fast as yours does.
Now, if you’re not looking for every ounce of horsepower out of your motor and you want something that will make a bunch of power on the street and have a lot of low and boost I would 100% run the Ti trim.
Jeff is correct, you can spin the Ti higher but it will make a lot more heat than the YSi above 55,000 rpms.
The YSi will make more power on the big end but you will sacrifice some down low. To offset what you will lose down low with the YSi You will most likely need a higher stall converter so the engine can jump right up into the efficient area of the blower.
It’s a trade off thing, each one has advantages over the other and you have to decide what your goal for the truck is.
tomlightning
Active member
I know that grip tech pulley will eat your belt up in about 9 or 10 passes. My neighbor runs them on his 10.0 coyote mustang. The one day we took his belt off, and it was almost smooth. They do work, but your belt life is short. And if your driving it on the street, it will last even less.
BlackFlareSide
Member
Jamie thanks for taking the time to write all that out. That makes a lot more sense to me.
I can see where the Ti would be faster and more fun in the 7-900 hp range vs the YSI.
I Don’t know if you were referring to me but, I do value your experience, and the rest of the crew! It helps to see it from multiple perspectives!
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