No Spark with Spout in

JamesJ

JamesJ

Active member
Been fighting this for a few weeks (well my builder has). Got the PimpxShift installed, timed, tuned all the good stuff.
Problem is hes getting no spark with the spout connected but spark when its unplugged. Stinger had him send the ECU in for testing, no problems, Looked at the tune and all the readings, no issues there. double checked parameters and they say its all good.

New Distributor set to the correct cylinder, new icm, TFI is correct, new MSD box. tried starting without spout and he said it tried but was not happy....kind of stumped and its a long process posting on proboards and have a day or more turnaround to answer a question then wait a day for a new test.

Long shot but anyone have this happen to them or any ideas?? its the last step before i can finally go pick it up and have my lighting running.

He has been using my login on proboards tech support & tuning, thread is "No Spark on to set timing"

just a shot
 
That would be my suggestion… bypass the MSD and see if it works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
He bypassed it and had the same issue. Not sure how it's hooked up as I just bought it and had it dropped at speed labs
 
So the problem surfaced after everything was installed and tuned? Or it's been there since when?
 
what made them take the spout connector out? with the stinger you never take the spout out.
 
Check the simple things that get overlooked, from a quick glance at the post it seems the Stinger instructions may not have been followed in the exact order. If you post or link a tune/data log here it will help.
 
FlatOut said:
what made them take the spout connector out? with the stinger you never take the spout out.
Click to expand...
Pulled during General testing and per stinger request while troubleshooting what's wrong.

Today they sent a little list if what to look for try/test.
 
Required said:
Check the simple things that get overlooked, from a quick glance at the post it seems the Stinger instructions may not have been followed in the exact order. If you post or link a tune/data log here it will help.
Click to expand...
I wish I could post that info, the truck is in sour lake currently so I don't have anything to reference. The guy who finished my build is sharp, hopefully he diagnoses this soon. He works on it before work and on weekends for me.
 
Well we're at a dead end..... anything on weak/inconsistent or no spark?? Could it be a ground issue? He's saying the tuner is reading everything right...so dang close and every day is costing more money lol
 

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So will it start and run, give consistent spark with the SPOUT out? Timed to 10 degrees BTDC? And this is matched in the tune file?

Overall this is a very simple system. The PIP sends a signal to the ECU and the TFI, with no SPOUT, the TFI activates the coil based on the PIP rising edge. You can disconnect the ECU and get spark at the base timing (typically 10 degrees) if the PIP and TFI are good.

If there's a SPOUT signal coming in from the ECU, the TFI module uses that to activate the coil.

If you have spark with the SPOUT out, the PIP, TFI and coil are doing their job. If you lose spark with the SPOUT in, something is set wrong in the tune and the commanded timing is way off. The first thing to check in the tune is that the type of ignition is configured correctly. The next is that base timing in the tune matches the base timing of the ignition system.
 
I wish I had something helpful to contribute. I just wanted to say I feel your pain and hope you figure it out soon. I waited over 2 years to get mine back and it too has a no spark condition.
 
Trucks back home, still crank no start from the shop. They basically washed their hands of it and gave me 2 problems to troubleshoot
1) possibly the cam installed out of sync/time? I don't believe the motor builder did this but in all honesty I'm not really sure what that means.
2) it's the tuner. They were absolutely NOT A FAN of the pimp system there at all. In all honesty I can understand his frustrations. You need to have thick skin when you reach out to the proboards for help and be prepared to wait for answers or for them to ask a question back.

Luckily my laptop i bought specifically for the tuner took a crap today and it's in update/restart loop that I either have to send off to asus or go to bestbuy and see how much it costs to fix a $195 computer. Now I have zero access to look at the tune and go over stuff, he set up everything so now I'm going to have to learn and troubleshoot a tune/program thats installed and i have zero idea how to it. Fun stuff! so now I'm figuring that out while fighting the rain that's predicted for the next 6 days here. Below is a video he sent me a while back of the truck cranking.
 
So, they checked to be sure the rotor isn't out of phase, right? You're absolutely certain the distributor isn't stabbed 180 off? I've done it enough times in my own existence to know it sounds pretty similar to that video...

Here's the thing, the PxS doesn't do any magic. It works exactly like the stock system does if you have an OEM-style ignition. If you unplug the PxS and plug the EEC back in, it will do exactly the same thing UNLESS something in the settings in the PxS has been goobered up.
 
Have you tried plugging in a stock computer to see what happens?

I have a few other thoughts and/or questions. Full disclosure: I know very little about the PxS, so these may be way off base.

Does the type of ICM matter with the PxS? If so, are you sure you have the correct one? I don't remember all of the differences in the two types, but I know that how the spout signal is used is one of them.

Does the PxS allow you to tell it how many cylinders you have? If so, is it possibly set up for the wrong number of cylinders? Sometimes there are rpm windows where no spark is provided for safety reasons. If the cylinder settings are wrong it might prevent spark at cranking rpm. Not sure what the spout would have to do with that, but could be related to my first question. I've seen MSD boxes cause similar situations, but you said you tried bypassing it and it didn't change anything.

Does the tach read in either scenario?

Have you tried setting the advance in the PxS to zero? I don't think I can articulate my reasoning for asking this, but I'm thinking something along the lines of it being possible that if the advance is set to high the PxS could be getting the signals to open and close the coil circuit confused.
 
Answering for James...

To get it spot on perfect, you have to change the dwell settings in the PxS depending on the ICM type, but it will run fine with either arrangement plug and play.

Yes on the number of cylinders.

Will it crank and run with the SPOUT out? It should. If it doesn't, then it's nothing at all related to the ignition setup in the ECU. It could still be fueling, but that's a different story and actually much easier to resolve.
 
When you get your laptop behaving and can connect with Tuner Studio dropping the tune file here will help. Ive had my truck sound like that when I had loaded the wrong tune and it wasn’t configured correctly.
 
This page explains the differences in detail, including how the CCD ('94-96) ICM's behavior changes with & without the SPOUT signal:

(click this text)


The SPOUT signal for the CCD system is same as in the push start except that the falling edge is now used to control the time at which the coil is turned ON. The CCD TFI module still ungrounds (fires) the coil at the rising edge of the SPOUT signal, but now the falling edge of the SPOUT signal (which had no meaning to the Push Start TFI module) is used by the CCD TFI module to ground the coil (to begin dwell). The PIP signal remains the same 50% duty cycle square wave, but SPOUT signal duty cycle varies according to how much dwell is desired by the EEC. The coil ON duration (dwell) for this system is thus entirely controlled by the SPOUT signal. The ICM does not internally determine when to turn the coil ON as it does on the push start system. It responds directly to the SPOUT signal it receives. Pin #4 on the CCD TFI module, which was the start circuit input on the Push Start TFI module, is now the IDM signal, sent directly from the TFI module to pin #4 on the EEC. This signal is still a filtered (low voltage) version of the ignition primary waveform, but is filtered internally in the TFI module rather than through an external resistor. There isn't any start circuit input to the CCD TFI module; the module infers engine cranking from a low rpm input from the PIP signal.
Click to expand...
 
FMOS Racing said:
So, they checked to be sure the rotor isn't out of phase, right? You're absolutely certain the distributor isn't stabbed 180 off? I've done it enough times in my own existence to know it sounds pretty similar to that video...

Here's the thing, the PxS doesn't do any magic. It works exactly like the stock system does if you have an OEM-style ignition. If you unplug the PxS and plug the EEC back in, it will do exactly the same thing UNLESS something in the settings in the PxS has been goobered up.
Click to expand...
He says he rotated 180°, slightly adjusted in both positions and ect...my 1 day without rain was battling small issues. The SVE radiator from LMR is leaking on the tran cooler side (pinhole leaks) and that led me to the fan shroud (been 3 years since I bought it so don't remember where I got it) sits terribly and the fan was hitting it hard on the bottom hard. I spent a good portion of day one removing that stuff and worried that the belt looks like it's wanting to walk off. Appears something is out of line. Then the laptop crapped out. Plan to start playing with 1 of the 3 distributors I now own. Luckily the MSD one I bought apparently is useless with pimp. I truly believe it's a timing issue and something set wrong in the tuner that when i see it it'll be a "simple" fix. The guy who did all the work is very good though he honestly did a lot of good work for me and it's appreciated just gremlins he just ran into I guess.
 
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