Water pump bolts and sealant?

core-rider

core-rider

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Last year I replaced my water pump along with all the bolts with the ARP kit from LMR. I’ve recently noticed I have a small puddle of coolant on top of either side of the timing chain cover. I did not remove the timing chain cover while doing the water pump so I’ll assume that gasket is still okay.

I’m wondering if I should have used thread sealant on the bolts going into the water jacket? It’s just a small bit of coolant seepage which makes me think it’s getting past the bolts. I don’t see any other leaks.
 
core-rider said:
...coolant on top of either side of the timing chain cover.
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That could be coming from the upper radiator hose, the bypass hose, the thermostat cover gasket (a VERY common location), the intake gaskets, or a few other sources.
core-rider said:
I did not remove the timing chain cover while doing the water pump so I’ll assume that gasket is still okay.
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I wouldn't. These antique paper gaskets don't last forever, even with proper coolant maintenance (which NEVER happens). Even on an engine that had no coolant leak there, I found the gasket was so close to failure that just cleaning out those journals resulted in leaks there.

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core-rider said:
...the bolts going into the water jacket...
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There aren't any. All the bolts are in their own discrete journals & bores. I've stopped even sealing around the outsides of the bolt journals in the gaskets, so that I can be sure I've sealed around the coolant journals. If there's a leak into a bolt journal, I want to know before the bolt rusts away.

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I thought at first it would be a leak from the thermostat housing area like you say, but I don’t see any signs of a leak there. Granted it’s difficult to see directly under the housing. I don’t think coolant would be on both side though. Passenger side for sure, but I don’t think it could easily get the the drivers side without a noticeable leak.

I though some bolts went into the water jacket which is why they were prone to rust and seize up leading to breaking upon removal. Luckily none of my original bolts broke, but I was prepared with new hardware expecting the worst.


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Coolant can easily drip or slosh from one side to the other due to steering hard or the fan. See if a parts store will loan a pressure tester.
 
This had to been an engineering woops, "so how do we cover the engine and drive a water pump type deal?"

It's a pita repair. I've done it so many times. I usually only pooky around the water jacket ports mainly because the timing cover has pitting. After it's cured finger tight, I'll torque her down. Getting stainless hardware would be nice in this area as well as a gasket material similar to the head gasket material.

The right stuff or ultra black/grey, felpro Blue gaskets. O-rings around the bolts similar to jet ski. They put waterproof grease and o-rings around all long bolts and studs, not for leaky parts but for outside water intrusion as well. Keeps the bolt from rusting or corroding depending on bolt material.

I say felpro because the blue is always in stock at most parts stores as well as most pooky. Pre assemble with pooky and run bolts through as an assembly, then install as a unit. Helps keep everything aligned
 
Most new car engines are built that way, too. They leak far, far less than our old stuff.

I definitely agree with the recommendation installing everything just snug until the RTV sets and then torque.

FWIW, I kept finding a few drips of coolant under the rear of the motor on the garage floor. I was concerned I'd lifted a head or was losing a freeze plug since the jacket ports at the back of the manifold were dry. Turned out the thermostat bypass hose wasn't tight, and coolant was migrating from that low spot under the thermostat all the way to the back of the motor before it ended up on the floor.
 
FMOS Racing said:
FWIW, I kept finding a few drips of coolant under the rear of the motor on the garage floor. I was concerned I'd lifted a head or was losing a freeze plug since the jacket ports at the back of the manifold were dry. Turned out the thermostat bypass hose wasn't tight, and coolant was migrating from that low spot under the thermostat all the way to the back of the motor before it ended up on the floor.
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I've seen some coolant near the rear of my engine as well... a drop or 2 hanging from the oil pan rail or bottom of the bell housing. I wondered the same thing. Guess I will remove the bolts and add some sealant and retorque them after a few days. I'll take a better look at the thermostat housing as well.
 
Intake manifold crossover, bolts like to come loose from expansion and contraction over time. I studded all mine with stainless and lock washers.
Water pump/timing cover usually leak below it but driving it may have pushed the leak/drips back and it just happens to be at the rear now.
Not sure on the lightnings but f150 have 2 hoses going to the oil cooler but wouldn't drip from the rear.

You need to clean everything and dry it real good, put some cardboard underneath it, start it up and see what leaks.
 
Rented a pressure tester and can't find any leaks except for a small pinhole on the radiator end tank. Retightened all the WP bolts as they seemed to have backed off just a bit. Has only lost about 2-3psi in 1 hour from that pinhole, but no signs of leaks from anywhere else. Cleaned up the coolant and going to let it hold pressure overnight and see how much pressure it looses and see if the coolant shows back up on the timing cover.
 
Whelp Lost about 7psi overnight, but still holding about 7psi this right now. The pool of coolant showed back up on the passenger side timing cover. Poked around some more and just happened to move a wire harness over and saw a glimmer of green on a piece of casting flash on the front on the head. Looks like I have a small leak at the front of the intake coolant passage. Bolt there is tight. Guess I'll just leave it be for now as it's not much of a leak at all... just annoying. I'll address it later down the road if it gets worse or if I have a reason to remove the intake.
 
core-rider said:
Whelp Lost about 7psi overnight, but still holding about 7psi this right now. The pool of coolant showed back up on the passenger side timing cover. Poked around some more and just happened to move a wire harness over and saw a glimmer of green on a piece of casting flash on the front on the head. Looks like I have a small leak at the front of the intake coolant passage. Bolt there is tight. Guess I'll just leave it be for now as it's not much of a leak at all... just annoying. I'll address it later down the road if it gets worse or if I have a reason to remove the intake.
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I fought this for a year. It’s the intake gaskets due to when you first torque them, they have some squish to them. You must go back and re-torque them a few times when installing the intake. I had to go over them around 10 times when I built this motor due to every time I torqued them and went back around they needed tightening down a little more. Finally when complete they were solid and felt complete. Have you changed your intake or gasket before? If so, I would re-torque. If not, I would pull the lower and replace gaskets. Torque using the method above.


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[mention]ASAP [/mention] No I’ve never had the lower off. I checked to see if the bolt near the leak was loose and it wasn’t, so I guess after 29 years the gasket has just given up.

Funny thing is I went for about a 120 mile drive 2 weeks ago and when I checked there was no coolant at all on top of the timing cover… no signs of leaks at all. I’ll just keep an eye on it until I replace the gaskets eventually.


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ASAP said:
I fought this for a year. It’s the intake gaskets due to when you first torque them, they have some squish to them. You must go back and re-torque them a few times when installing the intake. I had to go over them around 10 times when I built this motor due to every time I torqued them and went back around they needed tightening down a little more. Finally when complete they were solid and felt complete. Have you changed your intake or gasket before? If so, I would re-torque. If not, I would pull the lower and replace gaskets. Torque using the method above.
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this is the gospel when it comes to the intake manifold. ive found no other area of the engine that does what the intake does, as mentioned lol....
 
core-rider said:
[mention]ASAP [/mention] No I’ve never had the lower off. I checked to see if the bolt near the leak was loose and it wasn’t, so I guess after 29 years the gasket has just given up.

Funny thing is I went for about a 120 mile drive 2 weeks ago and when I checked there was no coolant at all on top of the timing cover… no signs of leaks at all. I’ll just keep an eye on it until I replace the gaskets eventually.


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Gottya man! Can’t complain with 29 yrs..lol. I bet it’s a pressure/heat thing.


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i don't know how many times ive gone over and over and retorqued and resequenced over and over................then i need to work on somthing in that area to find a finger tight bolt/nut and im like....... how in the #!@$ did it come loose again?

then i studded them all thinking that was going to fix it......nope, expansion and contraction and i guess it gets squished a little more, then i retorque......then it gets squished some more, then i retorque...... i don't have to tell you........ lol
 
ASAP said:
You must go back and re-torque them a few times when installing the intake. I had to go over them around 10 times when I built this motor due to every time I torqued them and went back around they needed tightening down a little more.
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That applies to virtually everything: head bolts, axle U-bolts, lug nuts, oil pan... It never hurts to go back & tighten any fastener TO its specified torque (in sequence), after a second, a minute, an hour, a week, a year...
 
Steve83 said:
That applies to virtually everything: head bolts, axle U-bolts, lug nuts, oil pan... It never hurts to go back & tighten any fastener TO its specified torque (in sequence), after a second, a minute, an hour, a week, a year...
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I agree Steve, but the the intake I find to be particularly hard to torque


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