Turbo's and Carbs....???

L

lil'Zeus

Raw Dog Racin'
I know this really isnt' the place to ask this question, since most of us here are running injection systems, but has anyone had much experience with running turbos and carb setups...I'm building a car, for the first time, before i build another gen 1, and I'm either going to run a bbf combination with a dominator and juice/turbo...

Juice and carbs are easy, i know; but has anyone ever messed with running carb hats and built a turbo set up similar to what I'm talking about? Is it difficult to tune on like this, with all of the positive pressure before the carb? Will it blow out power valves, things like that...

Hope someone might be able to help...

Oh, btw, the car is a merc zepyr Z7....the old fairmont style 2 door...lol I want a sleeper

thanks guys
 
Oh, one more thing...Most may not know but hey its worth asking...

Does anyone make a set of shortie type headers for a big block? I really don't want to use a stock manifold...
 
Shane, Dave Pickrel is having alot of success with his blow thru carb setup. He's using and Air-water intercooler to cool the air and he said that keeps the rejetting less frequent. This is on his Gen1.
 
Thanks Frank...now if I can track down Daves number...i used to have it somewhere...i lost Jeffs # as well....Sometimes I think I'm going crazy

Thanks again Frank, I didn't realize that that was the set up Dave was working with...

later
 
Blow through carbs work very well if properly modded by someone who knows what they're doing. I do think you need to change the Dominator idea on a blow through though. Not sure you'll ever get a carb that big to work on a blow-through.

Jody
 
Go to www.turbomustangs.com and look up the forum for carbs and turbos. Very good info over there. Talk to the company CSU and they will set you up with a carb that will only needed to be bolted on. They also have carb hats. On top of that they will actually answer the phone! Several guys have talked to them while they were on the dyno.
 
BBF shorty headers

I know that they make mid-length headers for the pass port and CJ port heads, (Try FPA or D&D). Unless you are shooting for more than 1000 hp, or are using a different syle of head, I think you could get away with a set of ported and coated manifolds. They really aren't that bad, actually.

I second the use of something other than a Dommy for a blow-thru application, a nice 850 would be plenty. Maybe back up and go through what you're looking for out of the motor. Are you running A or C level heads, A460, Eliminator, or Aluminum block? Billet or Forged Crank? Stroker? The regular block can handle as much as 1200 if it's filled and properly set up, but in a daily use environment, it's a question of how long. (there is a Monster truck running a 14-71 blown 557 on alcohol as a back up motor)
At that level, you're really better of going with good parts so you're not driving a grenade with the pin 3/4 of the way out.


Might want to check out the Network54 385 series site, there is a gentleman with a twin turbo BBF in a Falcon, and several centrifugal BBF's, or, I'm sure FMOS will chime in as he has an injected single turbo 598 running 4 digit hp levels. Jim Sheren had a blow through centrifugal Fairmont as well. (coolers.toohighpsi.com)

One thought occurred, if you run the TFS A heads, I believe you can use BBC headers.. (I know you can if you run the Blue Thunder "B" heads)..

FWIW there was a yahoo forum for blow-through turbo motors, and when I was still reading there, some were having trouble with CSU hats, they may have updated their product, but people were having success swiching to the Extreme Velocity hats.

edit: Looks like the TurboMustangs crowd is having good luck with the CSU stuff..

Best of luck,
Jim
 
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The best thing is custom heads, Jeff S. were made by the old owners. I am sure a set of flipped shorties would work. But I have seen a guy make 800+rwhp with a set of stock cast iron manifolds.
 
Thanks guys for your help...here is a run down on my plan...

-I want to do a forged stroker set up with BBC rods (ie. eagle @ 533-557 cubes)
-stock block
-worked over iron (C9VE) heads, they are the closed chamber 73.5cc heads with huge valves (2.24int and 1.725ex)
-Victor style intake, either edlebrock, motorsports, TFS etc...

-cam...not sure yet...if i go with the turbo idea, something turbo friendly of course, but deffinately hyd.roller cam, probably the new dual stage solid roller lifters to match...

-roller rockers of course

Something along those lines....

I think that is will be easy to make a BBF NA between 600-700 so the turbo would be just a bonus...that or the jucie...i know juce is cheaper, but the turbos would give it that somewhat quite streetsleeper appeal...lol

Oh, BTW I do check out the 385 series all the time, just never posted there

I figued first on a good 850, but i don't know if that will support the power...
 
Dont even think about stroking a stock block with a turbo. Save your money and use the stock crank because with the right turbo you will not have any problems breaking the block. An 850 will do just fine with that motor if built right.
Have you checked out pistons yet for a 75cc head that will net you a low compression? May want to check that out because the open chamber (72 up or D2 up) have a 95cc chamber and I have found several pistons that will give you around an 8.5:1. Plus I have seen flow sheets for them both and on the intake they flow similar when ported with the older versions having better exhaust flow.
Go with a solid flat tappet cam, cheaper than a solid and hydraulic roller, and almost as good as a solid roller. You may have to readjust the valves twice a year.
 
I don't want to run low compression...i want around 10:1 or so...i think you can do that with boost no problem....

Heres what my ideas consists of....
I wanted to use a small set of turbos, like SVO turbos, or some junkyard small turbo coupe turbos...something that will spool quick and make power fast...is that the wrong way...it is a street car, and basically will only see street duty...it won't turn a lot or rpm either, i don't think its needed....

The C9VE heads, from what i can tell, and doing some minor research, they are identical to CJ and SCJ heads, but they have a passenger car casting number...they have the same size valves and combustion chambers...i think if i cleaned them up on the intake and gasket matched them to the intake, and did some minor porting on the exhaust side, those heads would be pretty wicked...

the bigger the chamber the less on compression is the way i see it...i don't see why you cant run decent compression and boost...just not some crazy 30 psi or anything...

I have four sets of heads to pick from, but i think they are the best of what i have, i also have two sets of D3VE heads, but they have huge chambers...

I know alot about nitrous and blowers, but new to the turbo idea...am I going in the wrong way...
 
The more compression you run the less boost you can run, especially if you're trying to run pump gas. Any particular reason you want 10:1 on a turbo motor?

What are your HP goals? Smaller turbos are airflow limited to a point.

Jody
 
why not...my intentions aren't to make a bunch of boost, thats why i was wanting to run small turbos...no lag, just power at the drop of a hat....
 
lil'Zeus said:
why not...my intentions aren't to make a bunch of boost, thats why i was wanting to run small turbos...no lag, just power at the drop of a hat....
Click to expand...

Just trying to help.

Jody
 
Jody~
don't take me wrong, i appreciate it..i'm trying to learn more about turbo apps...

But does that sound like a bad plan:

Not much rpm, more compression, and small turbos?

Thanks everybody, i'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn different combos..thanks
 
lil'Zeus said:
Jody~
don't take me wrong, i appreciate it..i'm trying to learn more about turbo apps...

But does that sound like a bad plan:

Not much rpm, more compression, and small turbos?

Thanks everybody, i'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn different combos..thanks
Click to expand...

What HP level are you looking for? What boost level? And what octane fuel? Non-intercooled I guess?

Jody
 
I was thinking with a big block, it would be able to make around 800-850 with not much rpm...

as far as fuel, 93 octane and splash the tank down with some 100-104 if i had detonation problems

as far as intercooled...i don't want to spend that much coin on this little street terror project, so i was thinking alchol/water injection...

boost level....oh around 5-6-7 psi on a pair of smaller turbos..

thanks
 
Unless you're going to run C16 all the time, you don't want 10:1 with boost, especially not with iron heads.. Stick with around 8:1.... Even a 400 hp 460 will make over 800 with a little bit of boost..

The turbos from the 2.3 Ford will be getting hammered over 4000 RPM, I doubt they'd live long in that environment. (two stock GN turbos seem to work well though)

C8VE, C9VE, D0VE, they are all closed chamber pass car heads with small valves and ports, the CJ heads are D0OE-R I think, they have the big valves and ports. The pass car D2VE heads have a wide flat open chamber, terrible N/A, dunno how they'd be under pressure. There are also Police Interceptor castings D2OE-AB that are very good. The D3 heads have almost the exact same ports as the C8-D0 heads, but the chamber is something like .1 deeper for the added cc's.

Most likely if you are going to see any street use, you'd be better off spending the $2k on an aftermarket block, just for piece of mind. You can make a stock block work, they have been proven over 900 hp under boost, with either girdles or 4 bolt conversions, and a bit of hardblock, but by the time you get a stock block machined, filled and ready, you'll have over $1000 in it anyway..

Just my $.02
 
Could someone tell me first if im looking at the head right...here is a link to one of the places that i got my information about the heads i have...

http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/engine3.html

all the way to the bottom of the page, is the C9VE heads...thats what i have, which to me are closed chamber, big valves, interceptor/CJ style heads...is this right?
 
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