Timing chain & oil pan gasket with new timing cover?

motorhead1024

motorhead1024

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I had the water pump replaced about 6 mos ago and now have a coolant leak from the timing cover.

My shop, usually trustworthy, says if I'm going to have the timing cover & gasket replaced ($1300), I should have the timing chain (extra $100) and the oil pan gasket (extra $1200) replaced as well. Looking at older threads on the topic, it appears that this is good advice, but I'd like to get a quick sanity check before I have to dump $2600 to fix a water leak.

Thanks!
 
motorhead1024 said:
I had the water pump replaced about 6 mos ago and now have a coolant leak from the timing cover.

My shop, usually trustworthy, says if I'm going to have the timing cover & gasket replaced ($1300), I should have the timing chain (extra $100) and the oil pan gasket (extra $1200) replaced as well. Looking at older threads on the topic, it appears that this is good advice, but I'd like to get a quick sanity check before I have to dump $2600 to fix a water leak.

Thanks!
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I've never heard about the oil pan but the rest sounds right. Id certainly wait for my replies though. I could definitely be wrong about oil pan

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Wait what?? on the timing cover gasket??

You have to pull the balancer. 5 minutes extra over the water pump. There's ~4 additional bolts in front and 4 underneath. Gasket surfaces need a bit of cleaning. So there's maybe an extra 30 minutes in labor over doing the water pump gasket. How does that add up to $1300?

Our trucks come with a nice double roller timing chain.

I wouldn't touch the oil pan gasket unless it's actively leaking. Some rtv at the corners of the timing cover and pull it back in.

All that said, I've never had a water pump gasket leak. I have had an intake manifold gasket leak, fixed by torquing the bolts, and the thermostat gasket can be a real pain.


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FMOS Racing said:
Wait what?? on the timing cover gasket??
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That's what he said, that the coolant leak was coming from the timing cover & he recommends replacing timing cover & gasket.

FMOS Racing said:
I wouldn't touch the oil pan gasket unless it's actively leaking.
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Roger, thanks.

FMOS Racing said:
I've never had a water pump gasket leak.
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The water pump & gasket were replaced last November by this same shop -- it's not leaking, shop says it's the timing cover gasket that's leaking.
 
Leave the pan alone if it isn't leaking, leave the timing chain alone since it isn't Honda civic. Ask for old timing cover to be retained so you can inspect it if indeed it needs replaced.
 
There's a couple of spots on the cover that certainly could leak, they're just not common areas for leaks to develop.

The cost of changing that gasket was shocking to me given that there's not 10 hours of labor involved in it - for an experienced mechanic, maybe 2.5 hours total from first wrench to last.

If they're lowering the oil pan to "by the book" install the timing cover gasket, then the additional cost of replacing the pan gasket doesn't make sense.
 
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I agree with what's been said so far, but am not shocked at the $1300 price tag and have seen a lot of these leak especially after water pump replacement. It was so common we always recommended doing both. The timing cover, gaskets, seal, etc. is going to be about $200 at a shop. That leaves $1100 for labor. At $150/hr that's about 7 hours of labor. Seems pretty reasonable for the job. They might have built in a little time to deal with corroded water pump bolts, but that shouldn't be an issue since you just had the water pump replaced.
 
Goodness, I just don't see that kind of time in the job. Makes me more happy than usual that I do everything myself.
 
when I “do it myself” it costs 3x what it would at a shop… after I do it over and fix everything else I broke along the way. Probably would save money if I took it to a shop.
 
FMOS Racing said:
Goodness, I just don't see that kind of time in the job. Makes me more happy than usual that I do everything myself.
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But how many times have you done it? Chances are this isn't something the average mechanic today has ever done. They are going to look it up in AllData or MOD and charge whatever time they say. If the tech beats that time, good for them. But it doesn't happen that often without some practice.
 
I definitely get the experience aspect. It's a major reason that I bought a second G1 as my daily driver. After 30 years and multiple trucks, I know pretty much every nut and bolt on the thing, so it makes maintenance and repair relatively easy.

A while back I had a BMW with an electric water pump that went out. I called the dealership to find out what replacement would cost and was stunned at the $2000 quote, so I did it myself. It took me a solid 10 hours to change the pump because a lot of the front suspension cradle had to come out to get to it, so in the end, their quote was pretty much in line with my experience once the cost of the $600 pump was factored in. I just couldn't fathom that amount of time to change a water pump.
 
Thanks guys - appreciate all the input - 10 years ago I would have done the pump, timing cover & oil pan myself, but I just don’t have the stamina any more - especially in this heat!
 
I would NOT replace the timing cover unless it's damaged. But it's a ~$100 part.

An OEM DR timing set (which I also DON'T replace unless it has >3° slack) is $40.

This page shows how to check timing slack just by pulling the distributor cap & turning the crank:

(click this text)


I never do a timing cover gasket in-chassis - it's too risky trying to get a good seal to the pan again (and I don't like dumping coolant & gasket debris into the pan), so I always just snatch the engine out and do it right. I only charge $800 for that labor, but my hourly rate might be lower than theirs.

(click this text)


A reusable OEM pan gasket is ~$40:

I highly recommend an oil drain valve.
 
I've been away for a few years but lurk from time to time. I have a long thread about this from around 2015. At 130K or so miles, the timing cover was leaking. I pulled, replaced, and restored the front end of the engine in the engine compartment. Not difficult but time consuming as I was degreasing and painting as well. I replaced all gaskets, except the oil pan. I cut the corner pieces off which took some time. The timing chain had stretched and needed replacing. The biggest issue was the cold spring weather and the stuck water passage bolt that snapped off. I went to a local bolt and washer store as well as Summit Racing, to get the correct Grade 8 bolts. It took one or two attempts to get the correct bolts. At the time, LMR had a bolt kit for the pump/cover but it had one or two incorrect bolts. The broken bolt was the most time consuming.

Water pump/timing chain/cover can be replaced without pulling the engine but is a true pain in the back. On the other hand, the oil pan gasket replacement will be easier by pulling the engine. I am now 58, and have most of my auto work done at a trusted shop a few minutes from home. Age and the heat in central Arkansas make working on my vehicles somewhat difficult.
 
motorhead1024 said:
Good to hear from you again James! Wish I could've done it myself, but like you I just don't have the energy for such a big project. Always liked that great thread you did on your project -- that was classic.
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Thank you for the kind words. I hope all is well.

Covid hit in 2020, and then my wife was diagnosed with cancer in 2021, so I haven't been around very often.

I very much enjoy turning a wrench myself, I just have less time to do so.

Enjoy the Holidays!
 
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