mass air swap

heart attack

heart attack

Member
Hi all. Been a member for a while and done lots of reasearch but one thing I can't find an cut and dry answer to.

Tomorrow I'm going to pull a full mass air harness and ecm from a 95 302 f150. Are there any snags to this or will it be plug and play. My setup is starting to go beyond sd. I think this makes sense either way, just wanna make sure it is straight forward.

I'm looking for real world experience not internet folk lore.

Stephen

---------- Post added 09-21-2012 at 04:38 PM ----------

and yes its a e4od, 4wd flavor....hoping this doesn't ad a further snafu
 
I don't have real world experience, but I have read that a 5.0 / MAF / E4OD 'puter will work, but will require a tune to work right & get proper performance -- there are several Ford Truck Enthusiasts and FullSizeBronco.com threads on this subject.

Your best bet is to pick up a 5.8 / MAF / E4OD 'puter - either the Ford Racing AKC0 made for the L, or the BIO0 made for a regular 5.8 (which I've seen on eBay recently).

If a moderator could move this thread out of the FAQ section and into the main Gen1 section for you, you'd get some more traffic...
 
Thanks for the tip. I've searched the hell out of this with no real conclusion. Only what started to be.

All was lost on this harness anyway, owner swore it was e40d and turned up aod-e. I'm still on the hunt, wouldn't mind getting to a 96 harness, although I guess thats a whole other can O worms
 
fell into a real nice pro-m swap, so my search is over. Now I have to find info on whether to use the lad1 ecm or lightning ecm to control the trans. Prob keep the c3p2 and sell the lad1 if anyone is intested.
 
I bought a complete conversion kit from Ford Motorsport when my '93 was a year old.
I was told it was really put together by Ford from a CA Bronco.
If you are lucky, there may be some of these full kits left over!
 
I realize that this is an old thread, but since it is in FAQ I assume new members still visit it.

I have not yet figured out how to find out what vehicle a member owns. However, since Heart Attack is wanting to change to MAF I am making the logical inference that it is a 93 or some other F150 speed density truck.

To anyone considering changing speed density to MAF, unless you change the heads, the cam, or the manifold , switching to MAF will reduce engine performance. Particularly, with engine response. This is because the computer knows all the parts, also knows the air temperature, and all other relevant temperatures and for the OEM equipment it already knows exactly what the air density is. It does not have to measure the air density through a MAF.

I expect that some may disagree, so you may see some responses to this Post. However, if anyone says otherwise, just do your own research on the web.

My information is from the very best book every on Ford engines and mods thereto. It is The Official Ford Mustang 5.0: Technical Reference & Performance Handbook, 1979-1993. It has a chapter on Speed Density/Mass Air and does a real good job of explaining things.

It is still available on Amazon starting at about $22.00. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602106/?tag=aymo-20

It also explains why deleting your EGR will increase cylinder temperature [Not Decrease It], adversely effect fame propagation, reduce power, [and thus fuel economy] and of course increase emissions.

If you do change the heads, the cam, or the manifold you will need to change to MAF

- - - Updated - - -

Roadbird
 
Roadbird said:
It also explains why deleting your EGR will increase cylinder temperature [Not Decrease It], adversely effect fame propagation, reduce power, [and thus fuel economy] and of course increase emissions.

- - - Updated - - -

Roadbird
Click to expand...

Interesting, my truck is running a trans with a OD gear ratio of .80, on a stock sd 351w, emissions removed....been averaging 18 mgg, driving the truck pretty much however I want

Factory truck 351w and the auto trans with a final ratio of .71, were rated 16 hwy, 11 city, 13 combined.
 
Funny I ran my G1 for yrs no egr or any emmisions stuff and I drove it pretty hard.
Avgd the same 12/13 combined mpg both before and after I threw the emissions crap away.
Ops temps never varied much either way.
 
Roadbird said:
I realize that this is an old thread, but since it is in FAQ I assume new members still visit it.

I have not yet figured out how to find out what vehicle a member owns. However, since Heart Attack is wanting to change to MAF I am making the logical inference that it is a 93 or some other F150 speed density truck.

To anyone considering changing speed density to MAF, unless you change the heads, the cam, or the manifold , switching to MAF will reduce engine performance. Particularly, with engine response. This is because the computer knows all the parts, also knows the air temperature, and all other relevant temperatures and for the OEM equipment it already knows exactly what the air density is. It does not have to measure the air density through a MAF.

I expect that some may disagree, so you may see some responses to this Post. However, if anyone says otherwise, just do your own research on the web.

My information is from the very best book every on Ford engines and mods thereto. It is The Official Ford Mustang 5.0: Technical Reference & Performance Handbook, 1979-1993. It has a chapter on Speed Density/Mass Air and does a real good job of explaining things.

It is still available on Amazon starting at about $22.00. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602106/?tag=aymo-20

It also explains why deleting your EGR will increase cylinder temperature [Not Decrease It], adversely effect fame propagation, reduce power, [and thus fuel economy] and of course increase emissions.

If you do change the heads, the cam, or the manifold you will need to change to MAF

- - - Updated - - -

Roadbird
Click to expand...

Your post seems very trollish but I will bite.

On the whole you are incorrect in your assumptions. MAF when working properly will always be more accurate than a properly working Speed Density system. Notice how I said properly working. There are many things that can be off in both systems to cause issues. But getting down to the basics and simply going off of how they work MAF will always be more accurate.

Speed density ESTIMATES the air entering the engine through computer calculations. Using the ideal gas law and information from the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor and the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor the computer CALCULATES the mass of the air entering the engine. This is not really the amount of air being consumed by the engine so the computer then looks at a VE (Volumetric Efficiency) table to correct its calculation before it delivers fuel to the motor. This VE table is mostly what gets tuned in a speed density computer to make it run correctly again after changes in the engine such as heads, cam, or manifold have changed the relationship between what the sensors read and what the engine actually outputs. Furthermore, the oem system is designed to so that the sensor can read to the highest accuracy possible. When you change engine parts, mostly caused by cams, the intake pressure read by the sensor can become erratic and therefore the computer will make an incorrect calculation. Even this can be corrected by using an Alpha-N algorithm at lower RPMs but that discussion is for a different time. Bottom line is that a speed density system has its advantages and drawbacks and with proper tuning can be made to run properly on almost any engine combination. But its largest drawback is that no matter how well it is tuned the computer is still only ESTIMATING the incoming airflow by CALCULATION.

MAF systems on the other hand, while actually more complicated in operation, do not have to estimate the incoming airflow to the engine. The MAF sensor can MEASURE this value directly when the air entering the engine is pulled through it. This makes for much a more precise value to go by but it is still trimmed by O2 and temperature sensor tables before fuel is actually delivered. The system does respond better without tuning when changing parts like heads, intake, and cams because it does not rely on what the efficiency of the engine is. Only the MEASURED amount of air that is entering it.

The point is that your post is somewhat confusing, guys go to MAF from speed density because the stock MAF system is better supported for tuning as a result of the mustang community and as I said can respond better to mods without tuning. If you go with an aftermarket ECU such as FAST or Megasquirt you will almost exclusively be using the speed density as it is simpler and with tuning can be made to run just as well as MAF. In either case what you said "unless you change the heads, the cam, or the manifold , switching to MAF will reduce engine performance." is untrue if you put on an MAF system that is tuned to your engine. If you put an MAF system on a stock truck 5.8 from a stock 5.0 mustang without tuning it and expect it to run just as good as the stock speed density the truck came with than you are right. It is all a matter of what your mods are and what your plans are for the truck. Also where you said "If you do change the heads, the cam, or the manifold you will need to change to MAF" this is completely untrue if you tune the speed density system. Its also untrue if you use MAP sensor friendly parts when changing cams. But if you expect to change these parts with radical racing parts and not do any tuning then you are correct the MAF will be the better choice. It still wont run correctly but at list it might run.

Also the comment you made about deleting the EGR reducing fuel economy is technically correct because it does help with fuel economy under cruise conditions and is not open under WOT and many other times. However its main purpose is as an emissions control. There are many engines that are not equipped with one and they get fine fuel economy. And it doesn't really pertain to the main point of your post so im not sure why you included it.
 
We will have to agree to disagree. You say "as I said can respond better to mods without tuning" I agree, if you mod the manifold, cam, or heads not only will it respond better but it is absolutely necessary to change to mass air. Speed density does not "estimate" the air flow. It knows exactly what the air DENSITY is based on the actual OEM equipment and the speed density sensors. It is the MAF that that does not estimate but measures the air density based on how much it cools the hot wire in the MAF. However, this measurement is slower than the speed density method.

Read the book. You might change your mind.

Just added the EGR because it is the other most misunderstood engine mod.

Thanks for your post. We just disagree.

Roadbird
 
Windsor Engines

Actually the best know-it-all book on Windsor engines is Ford Windsor Small-Block Performance by Isaac Martin.

There are two printings, the current one has a gray cover and has more up to date info; but the original yellow
cover that was printed in 1999. The info in that one was more current when the Gen 1 was produced and direct
references made to the L..

They newer one costs about $19 and the yellow cover around $12 on Amazon.

The best detailed and illustrated reference books on rebuilding and modifying the Windsor.
 
Last edited:
Roadbird said:
We will have to agree to disagree. You say "as I said can respond better to mods without tuning" I agree, if you mod the manifold, cam, or heads not only will it respond better but it is absolutely necessary to change to mass air. Speed density does not "estimate" the air flow. It knows exactly what the air DENSITY is based on the actual OEM equipment and the speed density sensors. It is the MAF that that does not estimate but measures the air density based on how much it cools the hot wire in the MAF. However, this measurement is slower than the speed density method.

Read the book. You might change your mind.

Just added the EGR because it is the other most misunderstood engine mod.

Thanks for your post. We just disagree.

Roadbird
Click to expand...

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree but there is nothing in that book that says speed density systems knows exactly what the density is. That is a fact because to it is calculating the density from the information it is reading from the factory sensors as you said. And at the end of the day any calculation even one done by a computer has some degree of inaccuracy. That is the whole point of the VE table. If the calculation was 100% correct then the computer would go by that calculation and inject fuel by it directly. However the VE table is present even in the stock tune to account for these small inaccuracies. You will not find a VE table in the tune for a stock MAF computer you will usually find a AFR target table based on load. Mainly because the computer does now know exactly what the measure air is and now only needs correction on the amount of fuel to gain the proper AFR.
 
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