Aftermarket Cam idle woes

Yes, all grounds are clean and have dielectric grease or niogel which I'm not sure what the difference is but anyway.

The baumannator says to use 40/60 37/57 for grounds and ko power. Although I ran it this way for years I agree with above that they are sensitive.

The baumannator does come with 2 other grounds that says to ground within 2 feet of the unit for isolation of noisy circuits, which it is.

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Here is a snapshot of some of the wiring involved.

I removed the engine harness from the 10mm bolt main connector and ohmed and checked the entire harness and found zero issues.

Short story long.
Engine will idle with throttle screw completely backed out (unlike before) with the removal of one of the many grounds going from the baumannator. Although choppy, idles non the less just like my stock cam, which just barely made contact with the throttle to take up slack and no air adjuster needed.

Which means MAF can run this cam and idle with the butterflies closed or I got a vacuum leak.

Second, I got a wire wrong causing all kinds of wierd voltage issues.

Third, can't wait till my snap on anylizer thing comes in to monitor voltage like a siliscope does
 
I switched it back to speed density today and if I can't get it to work right I'm going to install the stock cam or the 50 ho cam advanced for degrees. Same idle issues as before, MAF was much smoother, but still there. I can get it to idle smooth with the IAC disconnected, as soon as I plug the IAC in RPM goes to about 1500. If I back idle down to a decent idle then it dies. Again unplug the IAC smooth crisp idle, plug I hack in RPM instantly jumps up. This is with stock OEM computer.

I'm going to do a throttle reset which it should have been during the swap cuz the negative terminal was disconnected but I'm going to set idle up and then try to reset everything again to see if I can get it to idle but when I disconnect the IAC and put it in gear it dies same as before.
 
I think I remember you saying you drilled the holes out in your tb blade, that could be why the idle is high with the IAC plugged in. It’s getting too much air.


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A couple of things I noticed in your last few updates.

At one point it sounded like you had not tried the stock cam since originally installing this one. Is that correct? I was under the impression that you had swapped the stock cam back in and it was fine and then put this one back in and it wasn't. Which is true?

If you are running the engine on a computer that is also trying to run an electric trans it will be very confused. When I put an auto computer in my 5 speed truck it did all kinds of crazy idle stuff. If I unplugged the IAC it ran great, just didn't adjust idle.

If you have a vacuum leak with a MAF it could explain why changing the mixture manually helps. Unmetered air will drive a MAF system crazy.
 
Fuel pressure is good.
Drilled TB isn't installed.
Original cam ran fine, zero issues.
Put custom ground in, idle issues.
Put 5o ho cam in, zero issues, switched to MAF.
Tried custom ground again to see if MAF would run it, same as speed density, had idle issues. I drove it this way for close to a year hoping to find a solution to the idle issue. Power was best with the custom ground and MAF, no doubt about it. The custom ground on SD ran rich, power fell off at 4200rpm.

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This is where I'm at now........
Cam choices are........16452291966435289165756641215587.jpg
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Here's what the shopping cart is for, reaching things climbing in and out is minimized lol
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Here is my parts washer, electric miracle grow sprayer filled with e85. Cheaper than brake wash, dries quick

stock cam stamped te
5.o ho cam ??
Explorer cam stamped tee
Custom cam stamped te which looks like a reground stocker which is why it's smaller base circle?

Stock and explorer cam look to have steeper ramp angles than the 50ho cam. I'm sure it's less duration than the stockers but I'm wondering if the steeper ramp angles create lower rpm velocity which makes better vacuum and torque where it's needed in this big heavy truck.
Took 2 hrs to get the cam out chasing my 2y old around lol

I'm thinking of exploder cam advanced 4*
Just simply because of the steeper ramps, hoping it creates a sharper faster intake signal for low end and good idle vacuum. 1.6 rockers shimed to stock pushrods, unless someone with experience or something chimes in and says no. I think most will say 5o cam adv 4* but don't know how that will effect vacuum. I've read that adv the cam increases vacuum so weez bout to find out.

I don't remember what the 5o cam idled at but think it was the same.
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Does this look right? ....I'll leave this up for your entertainment.
Btw all the engines I've built, this is the only American one. Every engine I've advanced, the crank was locked at tdc with a crank lock tool and camshaft was moved to advance and retard, not exactly like this.
On this, Cam only has one dot that always faces down and the crank is turned to adv or retard. Why don't they make the cam gear multi indexed instead of the crank? I want to adv cam not crank but on this you have to adv crank to adv cam and then remember......this but it doesn't say in the instructions.......
And maybe you guys can verify this but, to adv the cam 4* I would have to advance the crank to A8. Like an idiot I'm thinking A2 A4 is cam adv but it's actually crank advance because 2 deg of crank adv is 1deg of Cam advance.

I'm using sa ⚙️ set 9 way, instructions that came with it are for a 3 way and don't specify if a2 = crank or cam? It's identical to the summit set, cloyes set specifically says to adv cam 1 deg, set to a2?
 
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Well I called sa gear, to adv cam 4* I need to install crank to A8 slot and align. If I put it at A4, I'm only advancing cam 2*. So to all those who are faithfully following keep this in mind when you are advancing and or retarding if you don't check with a degree wheel, this is what you need to know.

Once I understood how it all worked I guess this is the best way to advance cam timing without having to do a bunch of custom machine work because if you did machine a camshaft sprocket with 2, 4, 6 and 8 degrees adv and retard, the holes will be so close to each other it would be one big long elongated hole which may move on you at 8,000 RPM so the best way without having to drill anything without having to do any machine work, would be the crank sprocket simply because there's more room?
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This looks more like what cam advanced 4* should look like.
Read the sentence in bold and below ford figure 2.
www.cloyes.com

Installation Instructions: 9-Keyway Crank Sprockets

Cloyes’ 9-keyway crank sprockets give the installer the ability to correct or re-position camshaft timing during engine assembly.
www.cloyes.com www.cloyes.com
 
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Well that's an interesting tidbit that I did not know. I've always thought that was the amount of cam advance.
 
Yea that is interesting. I had mine advanced 2° then. That’s all you need.


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I should have it fired up today.
May have to do some more shimming but rain is on the way.
I imagine a lot of people adv 2* w/o lknowing and makes me wonder if they loved 2 thinking it was 4. Too late to turn back now. It's what I get listening to the internet.
Somewhere there was an old magazine article someone posted of a mustang that they advanced IT eight degrees when in fact it was four but anyway they said it ran on the dyno the best.
 
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It's just the difference between crank degrees and cam degrees. The crank turns twice as fast as the cam, so it will turn 8 degrees when the cam turns 4. When we are talking about installing the cam advanced we are talking about the difference between the intake centerline and the lobe separation angle. The first is measured in crank degrees and the second in cam degrees, so they get mixed together. When we talk about advancing the cam we are usually talking about cam degrees, but for some reason that set is market with crank degrees.
 
Well, fired up and purred like a kitten with no belt, no air tubes, no radiator.
Pulled spout, changed timing, checked firing order. Snapped the throttle and feels like it's only running on 4. It spit out the intake a few times so if it's not raining tomorrow all day I'm going to check valves. I shimmed them to 20 thou but didn't check all of them due to a rain shower
 
I had the 4 degrees advance ground on the cam when I had it made. I kind of have the itch to put a bit more cam in it.

I don't know why I keep thinking about meddling with stuff. The truck runs pretty decently for all the baby stuff that's in it. I just need to get the torque converter changed.
 
I'm right there with you f Moss, I can't leave stuff alone. I keep thinking there's more power somewhere. I mean its a 351, this should easily be 350-400 na hp with modern parts.

Oil well, if I was to ask you which slot do I need to advance the Cam 4*, you would have said A8? I need to practice cam degreeing more so Im confident with my results. I've got an engine right here on a stand to practice.

Yesterday low 80s today wintery mix
 
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I would have said to try that and then degree it to make sure it ended up where you wanted it. The option you chose of calling the manufacturer and asking was also a good one. 8 degrees is a lot of advance, so seeing that marking is cause for questioning what it would get you.
 
Yeah, I'm curious to see what it actually ended up at with a degree wheel. Haven't had much time to mess with it since its raining. I did check all the valves today, only one was a little tight. Still feels like it's only running on 4 but I remember it running like crap w/o the belt last time or the air tube. And I'm wondering where timing is going to end up being this far advanced.

With the spout out, I advanced the crap out of the distributor to see what happens and it reved really nice.
 
I thought timing is off the cam gear, and since it's off 4 deg, would the distributor be 4 deg off? I know it's measured off the crank but cam is off now, I would think timing would have to be too???

Cuz I set timing to 10 as usual and it runs like timing is off, so I removed spout again and I advanced it. And with the spout out it reved really good surprisingly with no other advancement but didn't plug spout back in cuz it was getting hot with no coolant, then it rained, now it's sleeting........

Since cam is advanced I would think I would need to advance timing to compensate? But I don't know. If cam events are happening sooner I would think I need to adj past factory 10.
So how many degrees of crank timing to compensate for 4* cam advance? Or am I overthinking this. It runs like the distributor is off a tooth even though timing says 10 with my light and spout out.
 
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jetski247 said:
I thought timing is off the cam gear, and since it's off 4 deg, would the distributor be 4 deg off? I know it's measured off the crank but cam is off now, I would think timing would have to be too???

Cuz I set timing to 10 as usual and it runs like timing is off, so I removed spout again and I advanced it. And with the spout out it reved really good surprisingly with no other advancement but didn't plug spout back in cuz it was getting hot with no coolant, then it rained, now it's sleeting........

Since cam is advanced I would think I would need to advance timing to compensate? But I don't know. If cam events are happening sooner I would think I need to adj past factory 10.
So how many degrees of crank timing to compensate for 4* cam advance? Or am I overthinking this. It runs like the distributor is off a tooth even though timing says 10 with my light and spout out.
Click to expand...
You cannot read coolant temp if there's no coolant or no circulation. Really bad idea to run the engine that way. I am no engine pro and certainly less smart than most, but ignition timing is relative to TDC (before, at, or after) so I cannot see how cam timing affects that. Now I am not saying how you *tune* the timing tables, just saying 10* BTDC is 10* BTDC regardless of cam changes.
 
I only ran it that way long enough to set base timing to verify all is well before I go putting radiator, fan, fan clutch, radiator shroud back in.

Let's say I set up tdc, cam straight up, mark distributor pointing at number 1. Then adv cam 4* with distributor still attached, the pointer will now be off. I wish I would have attached the distributor to see where it ended up at. So when I went back with everything, stuck pointer at 1, it should be off???

All I'm saying is it runs like the distributor is off a tooth, unless I made a human error which happens but timing light says we are good. It runs crappy, spits out the intake but idles smooth as silk lol

If I get a chance today I'm going to advance it a tooth and see what happens and then I'm going to retarded a tooth and see what happens because it runs like it's a tooth off for sure
 
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