A to W or A to A intercoolers, why not both

B

black bullet

Member
so my question is why not have both for a turbo set up. Its easy, have a killerchiller, it does away with the heat exchanger, the killer chiller it small, and can fit almost anywhere, and have a front mount in the heat exchanger place, and run your tubing accordingly, have the best of both worlds, i wanna her why only few or none have done it. or reason why not to do it.
 
I've heard that the killer chiller really knocks out the a/c in the cab during the summer in hot climates. You being in SA would make that unacceptable IMO. I think A-W is the way to go.
 
I thought the same thing about 3 weeks ago before my turbo build. so i started talking to people and asking them what they prefer and almost all of them went from a to w to a to a
 
FKASRT said:
I thought the same thing about 3 weeks ago before my turbo build. so i started talking to people and asking them what they prefer and almost all of them went from a to w to a to a
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Well thats why i am asking. i am about to start my turbo build, i already have the piping, al the flanges, even the one for the intake that replaces the blwer, made out of alumina. i looked over a bunch of pics of turbo kits, intercooler setups. well i have been thinking real hard to my self and ask why not. it easy. use the killerchiller or the the TRUE FORGED chillers, get rid of the heat exchanger replace it with a air to air, now you have the best world, you dont need to use the a/c all the time, it has a air to air. i have heard alot of people have crappy air in side the cab. but if anyone is like me i have the windows down almost all the time. it doesnt seem to be that hard to tune around also. just something i have been thinking about, and i think it will be fine and work great. What do you all think?
 
Yea I still might go that route I have everything to do both but I will be doing alot of street racing and a to a is better for that. But I drive around with the ol lady alot going out of town so the a/c thing wouldn't go over to well. HAHA.

Do it if your going to do alot of track racing. And hell if you don't like it then take it off. I just talked to too many people that went from a to w to a to a and said they wouldn't go back. GOOD LUCK
 
i know Im always scared the truck is gonna overheat when i idle for a period of more then 5 min ... its funny you bring this up as I was just thinking the same thning like a factory I/C to cool it while its idling or some shthing
 
for most of the people that say the a/c in the cab is crappy because of the killerchiller, let me ask you this, who filled the a/c back up with freon, do you or they know how to properly charge a vehicle A/C system. well if know then that's why. did u change the bryer, orifice tube, did you drain all the oil out and put all new oil back in, did you pull a good vacuum really good for at least and hour. doing all that takes the contaminated crap out, basically don't have condensibles in the sysem, which is trash, moisture and contaminated oil. If you did properly then there would be no issues with the cabs A/C. i just did a friend of mine's killerchiller set up and did the stuff i just talk about above and his A/C blows 32 degrees out of the vents, sitting in traffic, it is awesome. I am a A/C repair guy by Day and a made scientist on fast cars and especially Lightnings by night.
 
Do it if your going to do alot of track racing. And hell if you don't like it then take it off. I just talked to too many people that went from a to w to a to a and said they wouldn't go back. GOOD LUCK[/QUOTE]

Like he said, if i dont like it then take it off. i am gonna try it. If it does not work ill just machine a mid plate, or take the front mount out and just make a tube from the turbo to the Air to water intake.
 
#1lightningfan said:
Any documentation to back the first part of that statement up?
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+1 I could see maybe at the track where the water is not being constantly ran through but you would have to explain the air to water being better for regular driving to me cuz I don't see how. But If this is true then why are so many cars running A to A?

I have talked to a couple L turbo owners and they all say the same thing. Changed from W to A to air to air and loved it and would never go back. I would just think since more then one person is saying it (esp guys that have done it and went throught it) there has to be something to it.

my theory is if your driving for a good period of time and the water is constantly being ran through over and over again it will just continue to heat up. ( I thought this is what was meant by heat soaked). Unless you have a killer chiller system(which would be the route I would go if I was to keep air to water) but even then I would rather run at the track without adding more load on the engine.

Either way let us know how it works out for ya man. Like I said I was thinking the same thing so I would love to know how it turns out:eek:ldtu:
 
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An A-W without a heat exchanger isn't as efficient, but with one the water will only heat up to a certain point. Water is very good at dissapating heat. There is also less friction involved with an A-W compared to an A-A. There is also usually less piping involved with an A-W, depending on mounting location of course, but that's generally the case.

I looked at various options with my set up as far as what intercooler arrangement to run. I was changing everything from stock one way or the other, so I was open to any design. The people from Precision were a big help, and their recommendation was an A-W with a HE, and after looking at everything I agreed with them. They obviously have a lot of expertise in the turbocharging/intercooling field. Even in 100+ degree (and extremely humid) weather, I have no problems at all with my inlet temps.

At the track, there is no question what so ever that an A-W is superior to an A-A.
 
I agree at track 100% but I do alot of street racing and the people I talked to said thats where they noticed the difference. Wouldn't more pipe reduce the temp a lil before it gets to the intake? But it just seems like more people are A TO A and aren't diesels A TO A? And they produce more heat then ours.

But like I said I have all the parts so if I don't like A TO A or BULLET says he likes his then I might just order a killer chiller system and put both on.
 
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FKASRT said:
I agree at track 100% but I do alot of street racing and the people I talked to said thats where they noticed the difference. Wouldn't more pipe reduce the temp a lil before it gets to the intake? But it just seems like more people are A TO A and aren't diesels A TO A? And they produce more heat then ours.

But like I said I have all the parts so if I don't like A TO A or BULLET says he likes his then I might just order a killer chiller system and put both on.
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More piping is worse. The longer it takes to get into the engine, the hotter the air charge will become. My truck was built for the street and that's where I race most of the time.

FKASRT said:
But I have wonder how bad humidity will **** with cooling.
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Humidity is a huge factor. In fact, I believe the humidity kills power on our trucks worse than the heat. When I do run at the track, the temperature doesn't affect me nearly as much as the barometer (higher barometer/less humidity). If the humidity drops quite a bit, regardless of what the temperature is doing, I pick up a lot of MPH.
 
Sinister04L said:
More piping is worse. The longer it takes to get into the engine, the hotter the air charge will become. My truck was built for the street and that's where I race most of the time.



Humidity is a huge factor. In fact, I believe the humidity kills power on our trucks worse than the heat. When I do run at the track, the temperature doesn't affect me nearly as much as the barometer (higher barometer/less humidity). If the humidity drops quite a bit, regardless of what the temperature is doing, I pick up a lot of MPH.
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Here is the info I came across when choosing my A2A.

There is an overwhelming quantity of ambient air available to cool an air-to-air core relative to the charge air thru the inside of the intercooler (The iced down water intercooler is the only exception to this argument.). At just 60 mph, with a 300 bhp engine at full tilt, the ambient air available to cool the intercooler is about ten times the amount of charge air needed to make the 300 hp. Whereas the water intercooler largely stores the heat in the water until off throttle allows a reverse exchange. Some heat is expelled from a front water cooler, but the temperature difference between the water and ambient air is not large enough to drive out much heat. Another way to view the situation is that ultimately the heat removed from the air charge must go into the atmosphere regardless of whether it's from an air intercooler or a water based intercooler. The problem with the water intercooler is that the heat has more barriers to cross to reach the atmosphere than the air intercooler. Like it or not, each barrier represents a resistance to the transfer of heat. The net result; more barriers, less heat transfer.
 
and i don't get how he says the longer it takes the air to get to the intake the hotter it gets. The longer the distance it has to travel the more it would cool off. I have never heard of anything getting hotter due to travel. But then again you learn something new everyday.
 
having both a/w and a/a intercoolers would be WAY too much pressure loss in the system. would have to run the pressurized air throught both the a/a and a/w IC cores thus making your pressure loss a bigger dissadvantage that running high IATs.. If you want a hastle free and affective IC for the street just get a good quality a/a.. you dont have the complication of all the parts of a a/w and a pump that could fail at any given moment. and most of the time on the street your moving so the a/a is going to be pretty affective. The a/w however will actually be a little less affective on the street as an a/a because once the water is hot it takes a LOT more to cool it down than it does bare aluminum (a/a IC). For the track the a/w is a major advantage over the a/a for obvious reasons... ESPECIALLY in the waterbox doing a burnout when there is NO airflow across the front of the vehicle. I used both a/a and a/w on my twin turbo setup when i had my Lightning. the a/a fell short on the big end and started pulling timing at about 1/8 mile due to high iats. but i was also running pump gas and 17psi so that probably had something to do with it.. I never ran the truck down the track with the a/w but i can tell you with ice in the res the iats on the street on a hot day for one long pull to about 120 or so were in the 80s... heres pics of both my setups..


both turbos "Y'd" together and a modified cobra HE..
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Custom built water tank under the passenger floor with 3500gph water pump
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1500HP air to water intercooler core under custom intake hat in stock location
1 1/4" water lines throughout..
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And air to air.... pretty simple..
twinturbobuild137.jpg

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You dont think the A/A was a little small for the application? Seems a bigger A/A would have done better at keeping to cool going down the track. Especially with our very large front ends on these trucks.
 
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