Dyno video.. updates..

T

Trav4011

Active member
Some video footage of what I'm going to call "shakedown runs".. No final tuning, of any sort has been done..

YouTube - FI-R's Built Lightning Baseline Dyno..

(In case you missed it in the other thread..)



Well.. what a disappointing 2 days it's been..

I'll say this up front.. Vince over at L&S Automotive has been a nice guy, and has been trying to tune on my truck.. but, I'm a little disappointed in the outcome so far. After spending over 1000 bucks in the past 2 days, my truck won't even idle properly.. (I had to push it off of the trailer this evening when I got it home).

I know that tuning on big injectors can be a pain, but, I don't think that it's something that should take more than a few days to nail down. I've tuned street cars with 1000+cc injectors, and I know what it involves.. I don't know SCT's software, which is where the problem comes in for me. So, I figured I'd let someone more experienced get it up and running. And, while Vince is a super nice guy to deal with.. I just don't think that this is something that he's going to be able to tune. We left the dyno today.. with the truck not running properly at startup, idle, or WOT. The truck made crappy numbers, but, I'm not even really concerned with that right now. it was hot, and conditions were far from ideal.. My biggest gripe is that the truck is not driveable, after spending what I spent.. money AND time wise. And, while Vince did offer to take the truck back and tune on it more, I just don't feel comfortable with that. Again.. nice guy.. but, I have a LOT of money invested here, and I just don't want to risk it.

I'm a little aggravated that I spent a grand+, between a SCT MAF, that I didn't even really want or think that I needed (had a MAFia and stock MAF from JLP), and a few other misc. things, plus dyno time, and I can't even drive the truck around right now. The tune that Johnny and I were working on via email was actually pretty close, and I just figured that L&S would be able to build on what he had started. I didn't realize that I would be changing out meters.. starting over from scratch.. etc.. It's just really frustrating..

Like I said.. Vince is a nice guy.. and I have no personal problem with him.. I just think that this vehicle/setup is beyond what he's capable of tuning. After 2 days, I should be able to at least have decent driveability/cold start and idle.

So, final numbers for today.. 514whp/539wtq @ 11.5-12 degrees, and A/F ratio off the chart, rich. When the truck is warm, it seems to idle decently, and drives ok.. but, still has a nasty tip in issue.. especially off-idle, where it wants to die if you blip the throttle and let off. (this made it fun trying to load on the trailer). Cold start is horrible.. The truck will NOT run.. at all. It'll fire, and die.. Smells pig rich.

I talked to Johnny late this evening, and he offered me a deal that I couldn't refuse.. So, I will be traveling up to PA within the next few weeks, to get my truck tuned.. Johnny.. I appreciate the late call back, and I'll see you in a few weeks.

Travis
 
Travis - truly sorry to hear it. I know you've put a lot of time and effort into the build. I'm sure JL will find the issue and get you running right.

If it makes you feel any better, after my truck being down a year, it took another year and a lifted head/blown head gasket to finally get my truck running right :sigh:
 
There are 1000's of people that can tune
There are 100's that tune Lightnings
There's less than a handfull that can tune Lightnings good and have the track numbers under their belt to prove it.
 
You have the 80lb.hr. injectors? I've seen and heard of several different "tuners" (some of the big names too) trying to calibrate for the new injectors, and many have had issues. Some it is taking longer than others to get dialed in. Most will just wait for a couple of the better tuners to figure it out and then use what they came up with; you'd be surprised what you see on the tuner forums lol.

Dol said it pretty good too. FFS
 
Yeah.. it's definitely the injectors. My thing is.. if he knew that he couldn't get it without spending a week or two, then, he should have told me up front. I know that he was trying to figure it out, but, you either know how to do it, or you don't.. and I just didn't feel confident with him trying to figure it out on my vehicle.

Travis
 
This same stuff happened when the 60lb.hr. SD and the 72lb.hr RC came out. Pretty soon there will be injector value files flying all around and everyone trying to take credit for them lol, and then most fo the tuners that are not that far advanced will be able to get closer to dialing things in. If they know what they are up to, they don't need value files. FFS
 
Johnny will get you taken care of. There's a reason I drive a 2000 mile round trip to have him tune my truck. He had all 3 of my tunes nailed down within a few hours. Over the years its always been the same, flawless tunes and great numbers and track times to boot.
 
Travis,

Now you start another thread.

WTF,

you just want attention.

Attention EVeryone,

I had trouble with the new #83 lb injectors.
I asked him to allow me additional time to get it straight.
I never said that I could not do it,
I never said that I would not do it.
I never said that "I give up "
I never said that I would charge you !!!

I said, its my birthday weekend.
Going on a trip with my wife.
Bring the truck to me after you make a few changes we talked about and I will get it straight.

I have never NOT tuned a lightning or Fixed a lightning.

All you want is to be able to say::::
I brought my truck to JLP and he tuned it.

And guess what ,
I made XXX horse power.


You brought me the truck because JLP tune was not right.

You make it look like I can not do it, and it is just wrong.

What you just did, [ for a second time ] just proves what type of person you are.


In the earlier post I challenged you to bring me the truck ,
allow me to clear my name, and fix it for you.


Now i have changed my mind.
You need to drive to PA to have your truck fixed.
I will not work on it again.

This was the first set of #83 injectors that I have done.
Looks like all the tuners are having to spend some time to build up their files on the new #83 injectors.

especially for dailydriving.

Publically bashing me has just hurt yourself.

I will not work on it again.
You could have had the pleasure of a local tuner that would be there for you.
My reputation speaks for itself.
Now why you choose to hurt me like this is beyond me.

Now have fun driving to get your truck fixed.
When you return from up North, I bet ya the street tune is not going to work.
Been there, fixed it, numerous times !!

You deserve it !

Vince
 
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Just watched the Video.

JESUS CHRIST,

If I had known !!!!

You getting to the shop late.
Saying, "I know its at *****. I am patient."
"I use to own a shop and build cars."
"I understand."
"I will bring the truck to finish"


It was all about the Video.

Now I dont feel so bad.


Childish , No Respect.


It took you 8 months to build it.
You gave me a total of 9 tries to get the tune PERFECT.
Yes 2 days passed...........................................

Yes people, with all the other things going on not mentioned.

I had a total of 9 burns on the truck.
If I had known you were making a video, I would have delayed my birthday weekend and set up till it was perfect!


Vince
 
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From what's posted on here, it sounds like the tuner should have been upfront and honest with the customer that he had ZERO experience in tuning his combo with the 80# inj. To spend 1g and have a crap running truck after 2 DAYS is total B.S. in my book! I'm with Travis on this one; why would he want to drive back to a shop that couldn't get it done the 1st time? To be the guinea pig test truck so the tuner can learn on it?? hmmm.
just my .02
 
Many people know me, and my reputation speaks for itself.
This truly has me fuming !!!


Day one !

gets there at 10:30 [ supposed to be 8 ]

Looked over the truck. Ran it on JLP tune. Runs horrible.
I did not like using the Mafia and asked to PLEASE allow me to use the BA2600. Sold it to him for $215 [ what a deal ]

Next he wanted to use a smaller pulley on the 2.6
Grabbed my 3.0 pulley. Put it on.
With the stock idlers, I said, "this is not going to work." too much belt slippage. So I took it off.

Started tuning the truck.

After the 3rd tune I had it idiling and running.
Noticed that the 02 sensors were not agreeing on what the truck was doing.
Asked him if he replaced the 02 sensors AFTER THE BLOWN MOTOR.
The 02 sensors were 3 years old and survived a blown motor.
Ordered new 02 sensors. let the engine cool down. changed them ate a late lunch.

Started tuning again. 2 more tunes noticed an ignition missfire.
Had Travis pull the spark plugs.
Found 2 plugs that had carbon between the electrode and porceiln.
this was our missifires. Gave him 2 TR6 plugs to install. opened up the gap from 25 to 35.

Started tuning again. Made 2 more tunes and was driving the truck.
ADMITTED THAT I WAS GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE #83 INJECTORS.
By now its getting to closing time.

Had him leave the truck.

Next day I did not get to work till 10.30 myself because of business.
Travis got there at 11.30

Stated that the injectors were gonna take some time.
Called SCT and they do not have files either for the #83.

Explained that I will need more time for driveability.
If he wanted to go to the Dyno to make some pulls then so be it.
[now I realize why he was in such a hurry to get to the dyno ]

Get to the dyno and by the time we made the first pull it was 3:30

Geoff was very busy with an aggrivated next door tenant complaining about the NOISE of all things.

We made 3 and 1/2 pulls and now its 6:00
I Said:

"Its my Birthday weekend. Going on a trip with my wife for the weekend. I can take the truck with me and work on it next week, or bring it to me to finish. YES, I need time with the #83 injectors.
HOWEVER, I WILL GET IT FOR YOU, I HAVE TO !!!"

He agreed.


NOW I AM TOLD THAT HE DOES NOT THINK THAT I CAN DO IT !!!


Get real Travis.

Be Fair Travis !

Life is not a U-Tube Video.

OR is it ??

Vince
 
Money spent with L&S


$160 for my Oil separator kit
$215 for the BA2600
$100 for 2 new o2 sensors
$350 for custom tuning and the other labor mentioned in my post of the daily events.


BigSVT
Now do you still feel the same !

Know the facts before you speak and choose sides.

Vince
 
never had 2 days in a row wraped up, but have been to a place (no longer open) that would make the runs, say it needed parts, get them in go back He'd find some other excuse, ended up with a few trips prob over a grand total with everything & ended up leaving without a change from, what was a genaric/Base SCT tune, even If He couldv'e done it, I and many others, never went back.

I can understand Travis's frustration, not having expectations met, but don't know the whole story

Sounds like Vince went out of His way on a couple things
 
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Well, I'm not going to stoop to the level of name calling, or anything like that.. but, I will post my experience..

I NEVER said that you were a bad guy, Vince.. Keep that in mind.. And, honestly, I don't appreciate you blowing up my cell phone, with text messages, while I'm trying to conduct business.. Not very professional.

Here's what I spent over the past few days..

$160 for my Oil separator kit
$215 for the BA2600 (didn't even need this.. honestly..)
$100 for 2 new o2 sensors (probably didn't need these either, as the truck still runs just as rough..)
$350 for custom tuning and the other labor mentioned in my post of the daily events. (DEFINITELY shouldn't have been charged a DIME, based on the condition that you left my truck in, tune wise)

Also, let's get something straight here..

As far as "labor".. you didn't do SQUAT. I changed my own plugs.. I changed my own o2 sensors.. and took care of everything, except for maybe 5 minutes of your time, when you installed my oil seperator.

On top of that.. I had to pay Geoff to use his dyno.. which, he felt kinda sorry for me, and only charged 125 bucks.. (Thanks Geoff). IMO, that was a waste, as nothing was improved, as far as driveability, or any sort of numbers.. The truck ran worse when it rolled off of the dyno.. after you up and left at 5 o'clock. I barely got it on the trailer to take it home.. as it was surging/sputtering the entire time.

Then, there's 2 days worth of fuel, to pull a trailer back/forth, twice.. That was around 100 bucks..

So, in total, here's money that (in my book) was wasted, because of your lack of knowledge on tuning this setup..

$215 for the BA2600

I shouldn't have even needed this.. and by the way.. your price wasn't "epic" by any means.. Hell, here's one for 224.00, shipped to my door.. Sct S2ABA2600 Sct BA2600 Auto Parts at FasterThanThem.com
But, sure, you gave me a meter a little above cost.. although I shouldn't have needed it.



$100 for 2 new o2 sensors

Probably didn't need these.. But, I suppose it's good maintenance



$350 for custom tuning and the other labor mentioned in my post of the daily events.

Definitely a waste of money.. and there was no labor.. so, I'm not sure what you mean by that.. I did my own work while I was at your shop. Half of the time, you were doing something else, or talking with other customers.. I had no problem with this.. however.. I don't mind doing my own stuff. But, don't act like you did any work on my vehicle.. because you didn't.



$125 for dyno time

This was a complete waste.. and not in the sense that it took a while to make the pulls, but, because the work resulted in NOTHING gained, power wise, or driveability wise..



$150 for fuel, food, etc..

Sure.. not your problem, but, expenses nonetheless.. and wasted time, due to nothing being gained..


So, yeah, I wasted about 725 bucks on items/time/"tuning", with nothing to show for it.. Now, why wouldn't I be upset, again?

I "lost you as a tuner"...? Please.. Do you really think that I was going to come back? I'm not your guinea pig. I have north of 20K invested in the drivetrain of this truck.. And, what's going to happen if/when you blow the thing up, Vince? Are you going to pay to fix it? I doubt it.. So, please don't think that you're hurting my feelings any..

The bottom lines is that you got in over your head, and you obviously don't know what you're doing, in terms of tuning this type of setup.. 2 days is enough time to build a decent injector table for a new set of injectors.. I can't do it with SCT software, but, I promise you I've made 1200cc injectors idle/drive just fine with a standalone.

And, as far as knocking Johnny.. and the MAFia thing.. or his tune.. Let's get something straight here.. Johnny has tuned COUNTLESS 700+rwhp KB trucks, with the same setup as mine. He doesn't have issues with using a MAFia, or big injectors.. He doesn't have excuses.. He just gets it done, because he knows what the heck he's doing!! And, honestly, his "over the internet" tune, is 10 times better than what you have in there right now. At least on his, I can start it up, cold or hot, and drive it around, without very many hiccups. I can't even start the damn thing with your tune in place.. So, don't knock JLP.. Because, I'm sure that Johnny would tune circles around you. I'm going to PA, because I want my sh*t done the right way.. I learned my lesson by trying to get someone local to do it, who doesn't have a clue, obviously..

I was nice about this, at first, because I was trying to be somewhat respectful of you, Vince.. But, you're not going to come on here and slam me, after I just spent that kind of money, for a CRAP tune from you.. That's BS.. I was sorta "ok" with things yesterday.. and I was was contemplating coming back. But, the straw that broke the camel's back was when I got home, and couldn't even get it off of the trailer. I'm a very easy going person.. but, this is ridiculous..

And, just to back up what I'm saying.. here's a few quotes that I've recieved via PM.. I'll leave them anonymous.. out of respect for the sender(s)

I almost sent you a PM Trav... Vince tuned my truck also. Very unpleased with the results as well. He is a great mechanic, not a good tuner though. And a very nice guy.
Click to expand...

He has tuned on Zem's beast also. That truck should be a high 9 sec truck...it runs 11.0's... He's tuned two other built L's that i know of...with not great results. Ask around in the LOLA section. I'm sure you will get PM's...
Click to expand...

I didn't wanna bash the guy. He's a great guy and very knowledgeable with working on Fords... But i just feel his tuning exp isn't there.
Click to expand...


So.. take from that, what you will. I think I said something along those same lines in my first post.. Didn't I? I understand that it's probably frustrating for you to get on here and see this stuff, but, put yourself in our shoes, man.. We're paying you for a service, which you are NOT providing.. I'm not going to keep coming up there, and wasting time, or be a guinea pig, for you to try and figure this stuff out. I CHOSE not to come back.. I didn't need an invitation, or lack thereof.

Travis
 
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Lightningdotcom said:
Man,.... I can't believe you threw Vince under the bus like that. Guess bashing tuners is a fad now.
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I'm guessing this is Geoff?

After 2 days, and spending what I spent.. I expected to at least have a driveable truck. Any competent tuner should be able to handle that..

Like you said, yesterday.. 2 hours? No.. but, 2 days? Come on.. I doubt it would take you 2 days to get a car idling, and at least somewhat driveable..?

I don't think that I'm being unreasonable here.. I paid for a service, and I'm ticked off because it's not anywhere close. Numbers.. I don't care about.. It's not even about that at this point.

Travis
 
I'm not sure what more I can say.. Hell, I guess just close this thread.. Apparently, I'm a bad guy, for being pissed off about spending a ton of money, to have my truck run worse than it did before Vince started tuning on it.. So, if that makes me a bad person.. I guess just go ahead and close this. I thought that I was as respectful as I could be, despite the fact that I'm pissed off enough to spit nails right now..

Travis
 
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