Non L computer tuning ???

[I6tq]

I have a computer out of a early 90s 351w auto truck. Might even be 88/89.

Believe the catch code is ROB0. I can verify.

Im not running any emissions pieces, not using an auto transmission. Would be great if someone could peek in there, and flip some switches off, so the engine doesn't look for these things, and the CEL goes back off, and only comes on if somethings really wrong.

Last I knew, a long time ago, best a person could do with these computers was a chip or piggy back chip, just curious if folks actually tune these things now or if someone else can do it.

Who does this, whos trustworthy that does this, and whats the cost of said service?

I don't want to do it myself, don't want to buy the software to do it myself, unless its a lot cheaper to DIY.

Thanks.

 

[I6tq]

I think based on the lack of replies, pulling the check engine light bulb, is the solution, considering it's useless if it's always on anyway.

 

[oilwell1415]

I spent a long time trying to figure this out for my 4.9 and finally decided on a Lightning PCM swap so I could use a Tweecer. Now I'm leaning towards the Holley system. There are places that do custom chips that might be able to turn it off for you.

 

[I6tq]

Back when I was contemplating modifying my 4.9 efi in a more serious way, I found a guy willing to crack the ecm open, as he put it. But that was a long time ago. I don't have the info anymore.

Remember a few guys were successfully running megasquirt with n/a and turbo efi 4.9s.

I been meaning to ask you, what are your plans for your built 4.9?


I think my real question, in regards to my situation. Is when emissions are bypassed, how does that affect the computers in terms of function, does it change the fuel end, does it change the spark end or does it do nothing?

I ran my 4.9 with no emissions and a check engine light for over a decade with no negative effects that I could tell, from mpg or performance standpoint. But then again, the whole time, Im wondering, what is really going on in the computer, when it sees there is no emissions. I mean, the lack of recirculated inert gas, shouldn't put the ecm out of its limits of understanding, I could see it using more fuel perhaps, if keeping the CC cooler was its intent, but it would have to base this on IAT, CTS and they are probably gonna read the same either way, only real change being the narrow bands O2s input. So I dunno.

Cause if its just a matter of a CEL light, I can remove the light bulb, not doing me any good being on all the time anyway.

What chip or piggy back chip companies are still around? I cant recall whom they were, superchips I think was one but rest I cant remember. Think there were only a couple more.

 

[oilwell1415]

Back when I was contemplating modifying my 4.9 efi in a more serious way, I found a guy willing to crack the ecm open, as he put it. But that was a long time ago. I don't have the info anymore.

I've had several tell me they could do it. Not a single one would put their money where their mouth was.

Remember a few guys were successfully running megasquirt with n/a and turbo efi 4.9s.

I've heard several guys talk about running megasquirt, but don't remember ever seeing anyone do it. The turbo is actually pretty easy and doesn't require any tuning.

I been meaning to ask you, what are your plans for your built 4.9?

They have changed a lot the last few years. Originally it was just going to be the most efficient stock rebuilt I could do because until 3 years ago this was the truck we drove all over the country. When we got my wife her Jeep in 2011 we started taking it everywhere, so I decided to go a little farther. I'm shooting for about 10.2:1 compression and will probably end up with a Crower CompuPro Stage 4 cam With Harland Sharp 1.73 roller rockers, but the cam ultimately depends on what kind of flow I get out of the heads. I've got the Hedman headers on it now, but am upgrading to the Hookers for the new engine. I've got several intake combinations to try, but really am hoping to do a box upper on the stock lower with dual throttle bodies. I've got a lower I modified years ago to try as well as a single plane upper. It will all depend on what it likes best for power and road manners. Should do really well from just off idle to about 5000 rpm.

I think my real question, in regards to my situation. Is when emissions are bypassed, how does that affect the computers in terms of function, does it change the fuel end, does it change the spark end or does it do nothing?

On these computer I don't think it does anything. They just aren't smart enough to know the difference. I've been without any emissions since 1999 and it's never caused me any problems. With the stock injectors I still got the same mileage with headers as I did when it was stock. With 19lb injectors I lost a little mileage, but it runs a lot better, especially right after I have the batter disconnected. With the stock injectors it was terrible for about 150 miles until it figured out what it was doing.

I ran my 4.9 with no emissions and a check engine light for over a decade with no negative effects that I could tell, from mpg or performance standpoint. But then again, the whole time, Im wondering, what is really going on in the computer, when it sees there is no emissions. I mean, the lack of recirculated inert gas, shouldn't put the ecm out of its limits of understanding, I could see it using more fuel perhaps, if keeping the CC cooler was its intent, but it would have to base this on IAT, CTS and they are probably gonna read the same either way, only real change being the narrow bands O2s input. So I dunno.

These computers can't see any of that. All they can see is whether or not the solenoids are working. It can't tell if there is actually EGR flow, just that the valve is open or not. For the AIR system is just knows if the solenoids are plugged in or not. As far as running the engine, it just looks at the O2 sensor and adds or subtracts fuel to get what it wants.

What chip or piggy back chip companies are still around? I cant recall whom they were, superchips I think was one but rest I cant remember. Think there were only a couple more.

Superchips and Jet are the two I remember.

- - - Updated - - -

Back when I was contemplating modifying my 4.9 efi in a more serious way, I found a guy willing to crack the ecm open, as he put it. But that was a long time ago. I don't have the info anymore.

I've had several tell me they could do it. Not a single one would put their money where their mouth was.

Remember a few guys were successfully running megasquirt with n/a and turbo efi 4.9s.

I've heard several guys talk about running megasquirt, but don't remember ever seeing anyone do it. The turbo is actually pretty easy and doesn't require any tuning.

I been meaning to ask you, what are your plans for your built 4.9?

They have changed a lot the last few years. Originally it was just going to be the most efficient stock rebuilt I could do because until 3 years ago this was the truck we drove all over the country. When we got my wife her Jeep in 2011 we started taking it everywhere, so I decided to go a little farther. I'm shooting for about 10.2:1 compression and will probably end up with a Crower CompuPro Stage 4 cam With Harland Sharp 1.73 roller rockers, but the cam ultimately depends on what kind of flow I get out of the heads. I've got the Hedman headers on it now, but am upgrading to the Hookers for the new engine. I've got several intake combinations to try, but really am hoping to do a box upper on the stock lower with dual throttle bodies. I've got a lower I modified years ago to try as well as a single plane upper. It will all depend on what it likes best for power and road manners. Should do really well from just off idle to about 5000 rpm.

I think my real question, in regards to my situation. Is when emissions are bypassed, how does that affect the computers in terms of function, does it change the fuel end, does it change the spark end or does it do nothing?

On these computer I don't think it does anything. They just aren't smart enough to know the difference. I've been without any emissions since 1999 and it's never caused me any problems. With the stock injectors I still got the same mileage with headers as I did when it was stock. With 19lb injectors I lost a little mileage, but it runs a lot better, especially right after I have the batter disconnected. With the stock injectors it was terrible for about 150 miles until it figured out what it was doing.

I ran my 4.9 with no emissions and a check engine light for over a decade with no negative effects that I could tell, from mpg or performance standpoint. But then again, the whole time, Im wondering, what is really going on in the computer, when it sees there is no emissions. I mean, the lack of recirculated inert gas, shouldn't put the ecm out of its limits of understanding, I could see it using more fuel perhaps, if keeping the CC cooler was its intent, but it would have to base this on IAT, CTS and they are probably gonna read the same either way, only real change being the narrow bands O2s input. So I dunno.

These computers can't see any of that. All they can see is whether or not the solenoids are working. It can't tell if there is actually EGR flow, just that the valve is open or not. For the AIR system is just knows if the solenoids are plugged in or not. As far as running the engine, it just looks at the O2 sensor and adds or subtracts fuel to get what it wants.

What chip or piggy back chip companies are still around? I cant recall whom they were, superchips I think was one but rest I cant remember. Think there were only a couple more.

Superchips and Jet are the two I remember.

 

[I6tq]

Ford six had a couple running MS, last I read over there, a couple more were talking about exchanging or looking at each others MS files. So I dunno, maybe check over there.

What your saying about the emissions is about what I gathered, just needed to read it from someone else, so I wont feel bad taking the gauge cluster out to remove the CEL bulb.

I was gonna go the FMU route with the 4.9 and a turbo, bought the turbo but just gave up on the idea. Matter of fact, Ive bought cams, and other chit but never followed through. Studied the MS information, to the point, I was sick of looking at it. Was doable but ah, inline six just isn't for me but I like seeing what other do to them. And once you get yours going, Id like to see and read about what you come up with. With what your describing, it should be extremely stout, many people will get a surprise for sure.

 

[oilwell1415]

I've never spent much time on Ford Six. I'll have to check it out. I've read a few turbo builds. They typically end up with a block split in half. I would do a turbo if it would go significantly farther than NA without failing, but the limit of the block seems to be barely beyond the NA capabilities of the engine. Plus I want to do an old school build where you actually have to work at it. I built enough LS1s and LT1s to make me get no satisfaction at all from an engine I can just write a check for parts and get power in return. I wanted this to be a challenge.

I will do a full build thread on the engine when it's done. I'm documenting everything along the way and taking pics so all of the guys that have never had to look farther than a catalog for power can see what really goes into a performance build. There will be a lot of things done that people will say aren't worth it because they're worth 1-2 hp at most, but if you find 1-2 hp in 10 places you've found 10-20 hp. I still want this to be as efficient as possible, so every little bit helps.

A lot of people get surprised now. Back when it had fewer miles it was a bit quicker and left a lot of people scratching their head. It's been 16.8@78 in the 1/4 as it sits and that's not doing much past the 1/8 mile. If you just looked at the 1/8 mile times you'd think it was a low 15 second truck, but past 65 mph it doesn't do much.

 

[I6tq]

Yeah, back when 5.7s pre-vortec sucked, dodge had nothing to show, and finding a 5.8 in a f150 was rare, hell even a 5.0 around here....I know stop light to stop light, my old six's never disappointed....with the stick anyway...never cared for the auto equipped ones.

Only thing caught my attention, was your wanting to keep the efi head...im sure you have good reason, but if I were gonna bump the compression anyway with different pistons, I was gonna run a carb head. Least that was on my plans sheet. lol

From what I gather, the head gasket on the six's is a big weak spot for boost lovers.

Po folk like myself, love the LSX engines, affordable, and they just plain work. Getting ready to do a turbo one with my brother, just a matter of droppin it in.

 

[oilwell1415]

My reason for keeping the EFI head is pretty simple: for everyday driving it is the best. You can make the EFI head flow, but you can't make a carb head have a good chamber shape or volume. The only real downside of the EFI head is the pedestal rockers, but at the rpm range I'll be in they won't be a problem. The chamber is very high swirl and tolerates lst of compression. I'm not sure I can make a carb head work on pump gas at the compression I will be at or even if I could get it there. A 240 head would get me close, but might need too much octane. If I was building a screamer that needed more flow I would consider a carb head, but for what I'm doing the EFI head is better.

It's funny how the LSX has come down in price. When I was building them they cost a fortune.

 

[droppedf100]

I would eventually gather up the parts to do a 94-95 maf ecu and harness swap. Then it can be easily tuned. Especially if your like me and good enough is never enough lmao.

 

[I6tq]

Superchips is out, they only do 99+ now.

Oilwell
The LSX market jumped back up when it came time to find an engine fir my Ford. I had every intention of running a 5.3 with a crown Vic ifs, but I couldn't find anything local, what I could find was nuts. Then a year later went with a guy to get one, documented low miles, like 80k think he paid 450. I'm the only Ford guy in the family, rest have a few 4.8,5.3,6.2 trucks, most have well over 200k on them, one is over 300k, and I changed thermostat on one, other than that, no repairs to any. I can't knock those engines.

I never cared for the 4.9 efi head for a few reasons, no way personally I'd gamble a build with one, especially knowing the carb heads been proven. But that's just an opinion, I've seen the efi heads perform in race engines reliably, and in stock form make a daily driver useless.

Droppedf100
That's my problem, I'm like an ostrich pecking at something for hours on end, when adjustments can be made....lol...I need something I can set it and forget it. Or I'll go loco.

 

[I6tq]

Hypertech has nothing.
Jetchip has a plug in deal, dynamic tuner. I'm guessing it just Jack's up the timing, cause it recommends higher octane. Not what I'm after.


Mpg it's getting and way it's running, think I can live with it as is. I'll deal with the CEL in a nontraditional manner.

 

[oilwell1415]

What is the light on for? EGR? That's pretty easily fixed with a GM MAP sensor if so.

 

[oilwell1415]

Oilwell
The LSX market jumped back up when it came time to find an engine fir my Ford. I had every intention of running a 5.3 with a crown Vic ifs, but I couldn't find anything local, what I could find was nuts. Then a year later went with a guy to get one, documented low miles, like 80k think he paid 450. I'm the only Ford guy in the family, rest have a few 4.8,5.3,6.2 trucks, most have well over 200k on them, one is over 300k, and I changed thermostat on one, other than that, no repairs to any. I can't knock those engines.

When I was building them they weren't the LSX yet, just the LS1. This was before they were readily available in the junkyard and volume hadn't caused the prices to drop yet. I think the last one I did was in 02 or 03.

I never cared for the 4.9 efi head for a few reasons, no way personally I'd gamble a build with one, especially knowing the carb heads been proven. But that's just an opinion, I've seen the efi heads perform in race engines reliably, and in stock form make a daily driver useless.

It definitely has some drawbacks, but nothing that can't be overcome. If I get one that hasn't cracked by now, it probably never will. That is my biggest concern. The pedestal rockers aren't the greatest, but on the street they aren't bad. I actually prefer the design because you can set up the geometry and then adjust the lash without altering it. I'm not crazy about the tiny bolts, but they are fine in mild applications especially after I put a girdle on them. I am tempted to give the 240 head I've got another look, I just don't feel like it will handle the compression well.

 

[I6tq]

Im getting the egr valve code and 7 or 8 transmission codes, Im running an auto computer with a manual transmission.

I guess the computer is looking for the MLPS.

Ive never used an E4OD, so Im not sure were the MLPS connects. Took a look at a diagram, kinda suggests engine harness, but I dunno. If that's the case, it should be there, if not, then Id have to wire it directly to the computers pinouts. Im using a lightning engine harness, but the rest is the 4.9/manual harness.

 

[I6tq]

I have a two wire connection on the back of the engine harness, drivers side, unusued, would that be the connection that runs to the MLPS?