Painting the frame

RazinCain said:
Kevin!

Hey my friend!

Yup. Brushed it on. However, some of the hard to reach spots had to be hit with the rattle can version of the hammered black paint. But 98% was brushed on.
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Greetings Brethren!

It's time to stop staring at this truck in the garage and do something with it.. Now way past the point of ridiculous!! Cleaning up all the Christmas and other crap out there so I can get to it. I'm finding my inspiration from you and Bump....
 
One more question on RO Hammered......if I strip the frame with wire wheels, etc, do I need to use a primer with the RO Hammered?

RO's website claims you don't need a primer. It even says you can put it on right over rust.

I don't have really any debilitating rust that I expect to be flaking off in chunks. Maybe a little surface rust underneath the paint that is flaking off in some areas (I'm guessing a PO sprayed something at some point underneath the truck). Still, I plan to strip whatever paint/rust off before coating.

If I strip the metal, can I just go straight to brushing this on?

If not, what type of primer do I need?
 
Since you are not media blasting to totally remove rust, I'd stabilize the remaining rust with either POR-15, or Eastwood Rust Encapsulator. If its really rusty, use Eastwood's Rust Converter. Otherwise I'm afraid the rust come back and will bleed through the RO after a time.
 
I figure you guys are on to something. Rust stabilizer probably best bet. The plan is to use 3M bristle pads of various sizes for what I can reach that way and a gravity feed blaster for a few tough areas and seams where two pieces join. Even with that, I'm realistically not going to be able to strip it perfectly clean since I won't be able to take the cab off or the engine out. Front cllp and bed is most I'll be able to pull off and even that will be a feat for someone who has never done anything this extensive before. Suspension parts might or might not come off. Going to figure that one out after I get there.
 
Diesel_brad said:
I figure I would throw this out there. I have done a couple truck like this, but not lightnings yet

1. sandblast frame clean

2. POR15 as a PRIMER(sprayed)

3.Valspar tractor black(formerly available from Tractor Supply) put on while POR15 is still wet(sprayed)











These pics are from 3 weeks ago. This truck had been driven 3 winter since the frame was done, it holds up quite well as you can see.






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I am really impressed by this especially with how bad our winters are. Sucks it has to be stripped to the bare frame though. At that point I would probably go the powdercoat route.
 
pwgood1 said:
If I strip the metal, can I just go straight to brushing this on?
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With all due respect to the other opinions and perspectives provided in this thread, this statement you've made is, based on my personal experience, the case.

Provided you remove loose paint and rust, and all oils and grease and your surface is fully dry, you can simply brush apply the Rustoleum with no primer.

The advantage of brush applying is that you can drive the coating into the toothed and rough metal surface imperfections which will displace air and moisture that spray painting can't address.

... But, take whatever steps you feel most comfortable with. I'm just saying that based on the process I used and results I achieved, priming is not necessary provided you use the brush method.
 
bumperquip said:
With all due respect to the other opinions and perspectives provided in this thread, this statement you've made is, based on my personal experience, the case.

Provided you remove loose paint and rust, and all oils and grease and your surface is fully dry, you can simply brush apply the Rustoleum with no primer.

The advantage of brush applying is that you can drive the coating into the toothed and rough metal surface imperfections which will displace air and moisture that spray painting can't address.

... But, take whatever steps you feel most comfortable with. I'm just saying that based on the process I used and results I achieved, priming is not necessary provided you use the brush method.
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Well, the bolded statement above is the key. I'd like to think that I can get it all stripped down to bare and degreased. Just worried that, realistically, that may not be possible considering I'm not doing a full frame-off. Even with some major components like the bed and front clip off giving me decent access to most areas of the frame, with the cab and engine still in place it might be difficult to get every nook and cranny to really strip it. That's where I'm hoping the spot blasting comes to the rescue, but even the best laid plans can not work out the way you expected once you get in there.

I definitely plan to brush on the RO.
 
Not to tire you guys out by beating a dead horse, but I thought I'd recap my plan here to see if you find anywhere you think I'm screwing up! :)

I'm not trying to cheap out with all the work that will be going into this (and I'm sure not planning on re-doing it any time soon), but since I don't have cancerous levels of rust and I can probably get just about any RO product free versus $50 to $100+ per gallon for POR-15 or Eastwood RE, I think I might plan to go with RO Rust Reformer for my base coat.

That is unless some of you guys have used it and have some horror stories. I will admit that reviews I can find in online forums seem mixed, but the same can be said for POR-15 (although perhaps to a lesser extent...and I'm willing to bet that for either one the poor reviews likely go hand-in-hand with poor prep).

If I had nasty, crusty, borderline debilitating rust that I couldn't abate, I could see the need to go with something expensive to encapsulate it versus something like RO RR that is more of a "converter (think ospho?) and satin black primer in one" (my words, not RO's, based on my interpretation of the product features).

FWIW, they have some labelled more for "industrial/commercial" use, but I don't know that I have access to that. Of course, if the consumer grade RO RR is too risky, I'll just buy whatever I need. Again, trying to save on the budget considering other parts I need to buy, but not trying to do a ****ty job.

Any rust I have, as far as I can tell, is more of a "patina" of "light surface rust" in the spots where the paint has worn...at least on the frame rails and such. Attachments, such as gas tank straps, radius arms and brackets, and leaf spring mounts are a bit different. I think they're all salvageable (except for maybe the gas tank straps..they look like ***), but they do look rougher than the rest. The paint on them is flaking off in big chunks due to surface rust underneath.

The plan, after taking off the bed and gas tanks and before reinstalling a core support and front fenders from that job, is:

1) Clean/degrease.

Any product suggestions here? Plain ol' acetone or something else?

Again, if an RO product, that might be helpful to the budget. I see in the catalog they have a Wax & Tar Remover but also more aggressive chemicals like Auto Stripper and Aircraft Remover.

2) 3M Bristle Pad everything I can reach. Never used these before but I bought the green ones that are a lower grit. Hopefully they're not too aggressive or if they are I can just vary the pressure.

4-1/2" pad on an angle grinder for larger, flatter, easier-to-reach areas, 1-2" pads on a drill or die grinder for tighter angles, attachments, seams, etc. Harder to reach areas, fasteners that aren't being taken out, seams where brackets attach to the frame, etc gets a spot blast with a gravity feed blaster gun.

3) Clean/degrease again.

Should the product used here be any different than what I use in step #1?

4) Rustoleum Rust Reformer base/primer one coat (brush this on as well or can I get by with rattle can?).

5) Rustoleum Hammered Black top coat one coat (brush on).
 
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I'd envision that after all that you could toss your frame into the warmest regions of the Atlantic and it'd still last for at least an eon.
 
bumperquip said:
I'd envision that after all that you could toss your frame into the warmest regions of the Atlantic and it'd still last for at least an eon.
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That's what I figure. I know people with some serious rust issues or who live in cold, snowy, salt-the-roads-all-winter, rust belt areas love them some high-dollar rust encapsulators, but I just don't know that I need all that where I am.

Honestly, I could probably just grind/blast it a little and rattle can some black satin on it and call it good if I just wanted it to be "good enough." I'm sure it would hold up for years on end.

I want to do better than "good enough" but I got to set a limit somewhere. If I can do the job for the cost of a few 3M pads and a cheapie gravity feed blaster using strictly RO products that I can probably get free, it is hard to go a more expensive alternate route given other projects I need to complete on the truck.
 
pwgood1 said:
Not to tire you guys out by beating a dead horse, but I thought I'd recap my plan here to see if you find anywhere you think I'm screwing up! :)

I'm not trying to cheap out with all the work that will be going into this (and I'm sure not planning on re-doing it any time soon), but since I don't have cancerous levels of rust and I can probably get just about any RO product free versus $50 to $100+ per gallon for POR-15 or Eastwood RE, I think I might plan to go with RO Rust Reformer for my base coat.

That is unless some of you guys have used it and have some horror stories. I will admit that reviews I can find in online forums seem mixed, but the same can be said for POR-15 (although perhaps to a lesser extent...and I'm willing to bet that for either one the poor reviews likely go hand-in-hand with poor prep).

If I had nasty, crusty, borderline debilitating rust that I couldn't abate, I could see the need to go with something expensive to encapsulate it versus something like RO RR that is more of a "converter (think ospho?) and satin black primer in one" (my words, not RO's, based on my interpretation of the product features).

FWIW, they have some labelled more for "industrial/commercial" use, but I don't know that I have access to that. Of course, if the consumer grade RO RR is too risky, I'll just buy whatever I need. Again, trying to save on the budget considering other parts I need to buy, but not trying to do a ****ty job.

Any rust I have, as far as I can tell, is more of a "patina" of "light surface rust" in the spots where the paint has worn...at least on the frame rails and such. Attachments, such as gas tank straps, radius arms and brackets, and leaf spring mounts are a bit different. I think they're all salvageable (except for maybe the gas tank straps..they look like ***), but they do look rougher than the rest. The paint on them is flaking off in big chunks due to surface rust underneath.

The plan, after taking off the bed and gas tanks and before reinstalling a core support and front fenders from that job, is:

1) Clean/degrease.

Any product suggestions here? Plain ol' acetone or something else?

Again, if an RO product, that might be helpful to the budget. I see in the catalog they have a Wax & Tar Remover but also more aggressive chemicals like Auto Stripper and Aircraft Remover.

2) 3M Bristle Pad everything I can reach. Never used these before but I bought the green ones that are a lower grit. Hopefully they're not too aggressive or if they are I can just vary the pressure.

4-1/2" pad on an angle grinder for larger, flatter, easier-to-reach areas, 1-2" pads on a drill or die grinder for tighter angles, attachments, seams, etc. Harder to reach areas, fasteners that aren't being taken out, seams where brackets attach to the frame, etc gets a spot blast with a gravity feed blaster gun.

3) Clean/degrease again.

Should the product used here be any different than what I use in step #1?

4) Rustoleum Rust Reformer base/primer one coat (brush this on as well or can I get by with rattle can?).

5) Rustoleum Hammered Black top coat one coat (brush on).[/QUOTE

The POR15 Marine clean is a very good cleaner degreaser. According to Absolute coatings even acetone and lacquer thinner leave an oily residue, but if your going that far you may want to consider etching as well. Mine is done with 2 coats of POR brushed sprayed with top coat.

I also did inside of frame horns with the Eastman product linked below. Unfortunately I decided to use this product long after I applied the POR, around the holes in the frame I think the Eastman product attacked the POR which caused peeling in like 4 or 5 places. It was a huge PITA, I had to sand those area back and reapply. If I was to use the Eastman stuff again I would do that way before applying the POR15.

http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle-qt.html
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My cab never came off the truck, just had to be creative. And paint can be touched up, not like power coating

Also for those worried about "cost"

Sandblasing a frame is in the neighborhood of 100-300. I have my own large sandblaster so I did not incur that cost

And the amount of paint I used(1gallon of por15, 1 gallon of tractor black) was under 200

So I have 1 day into stripping off everything, 1 day to sandblast and paint, then another 2 days for reassembly

I always say it, but anything worth doing, is worth doing right. And if you can't afford to do it right the 1st time, what makes you think you can afford to do it a second time.

here is a F550 i did a couple of years ago too











 
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Jamie V said:
I love this quote!
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Oh, I totally agree, but $$$ is still $$$. If I can get it done with RO products that I can likely get for nothing and it will be "good enough" to last for years on end, I'm good with going that route. Besides, I've pretty much already decided I'm going RO Hammered for the top coat as I like the look and it appears to have some endorsements here, so we're really only talking about the primer/base coat this point.

As far as cost goes, I agree that this project is low cost compared to other things. For example, the steering gear box I'll eventually buy will likely be about $400 including core charge...but that's all the more reason why I'm trying to make room in the budget by buying a JY A/C system for about $100 (instead of $500+ for aftermarket components plus a charge after) and hoping RO products (free) are good enough to do the job on the frame vs $200-300 on other brands of paint, solvent, or encapsulators.

No reason to skimp because I surely don't want to do this again in another year or two because the paint is peeling off, which is why I was kind of polling the group to see if they had any major reservations through experience with the RO products I mentioned.
 
Didn't really read this whole thread but, just for an idea. I have done por15,RO hammered and VHT Epoxy paint on my frame. As everyone knows it is all in the prep. All of these products worked well, the por15 if ALL the rust is not taken care and neutralized and even if it is it will continue to grow under your coating. The RO Hammertone works well and has good qualities and the only issue with the VHT Epoxy coat is it will fade in color and it is about $8 a can. I can't say either one lasted any longer then the other, probably about two years for each under pretty much daily driving duty in MD where over salting is rampant in the winter. Six months ago I yanked my whole frame, had it completely sand blasted and thick black epoxy coated. It cost me $500. That is a freakin deal. For comparison, the pricing I got on powder coat was around $1500 +/-.Even if you just have it blasted and paint it yourself believe me when I tell you it will be money well spent. In my experience, you will end up doing the frame again in a couple years if you don't prep it right the first time. Wire wheels, grinders and scotch brite pads are only gonna get you so far.
 
I actually did contact a sand blasting outfit here in town. Doesn't sound he would charge a whole lot if it was a bare frame, but he won't blast my frame even if I strip the bed, gas tanks, lines, etc, and front clip off of it. Said he would have more time in prep than in actually blasting it plus he doesn't want the liability of something still attached to the truck getting damaged from the sand. I can understand where he's coming from, but I'm just not tackling a frame off right now. Maybe one of these days if/when I live in a house with a third garage bay that I can keep tied up and am okay not having the truck on the road for a very long time, but now is not the time.

It will just have to be as good a job as I can do with the things mentioned above off the truck and me going at it with hand tools and a spot blaster.
 
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