Sinister04L

More piping is worse. The longer it takes to get into the engine, the hotter the air charge will become. My truck was built for the street and that's where I race most of the time.

Humidity is a huge factor. In fact, I believe the humidity kills power on our trucks worse than the heat. When I do run at the track, the temperature doesn't affect me nearly as much as the barometer (higher barometer/less humidity). If the humidity drops quite a bit, regardless of what the temperature is doing, I pick up a lot of MPH.

1fst54

Here is the info I came across when choosing my A2A.

There is an overwhelming quantity of ambient air available to cool an air-to-air core relative to the charge air thru the inside of the intercooler (The iced down water intercooler is the only exception to this argument.). At just 60 mph, with a 300 bhp engine at full tilt, the ambient air available to cool the intercooler is about ten times the amount of charge air needed to make the 300 hp. Whereas the water intercooler largely stores the heat in the water until off throttle allows a reverse exchange. Some heat is expelled from a front water cooler, but the temperature difference between the water and ambient air is not large enough to drive out much heat. Another way to view the situation is that ultimately the heat removed from the air charge must go into the atmosphere regardless of whether it's from an air intercooler or a water based intercooler. The problem with the water intercooler is that the heat has more barriers to cross to reach the atmosphere than the air intercooler. Like it or not, each barrier represents a resistance to the transfer of heat. The net result; more barriers, less heat transfer.

FKASRT

and i don't get how he says the longer it takes the air to get to the intake the hotter it gets. The longer the distance it has to travel the more it would cool off. I have never heard of anything getting hotter due to travel. But then again you learn something new everyday.

oiN8io

having both a/w and a/a intercoolers would be WAY too much pressure loss in the system. would have to run the pressurized air throught both the a/a and a/w IC cores thus making your pressure loss a bigger dissadvantage that running high IATs.. If you want a hastle free and affective IC for the street just get a good quality a/a.. you dont have the complication of all the parts of a a/w and a pump that could fail at any given moment. and most of the time on the street your moving so the a/a is going to be pretty affective. The a/w however will actually be a little less affective on the street as an a/a because once the water is hot it takes a LOT more to cool it down than it does bare aluminum (a/a IC). For the track the a/w is a major advantage over the a/a for obvious reasons... ESPECIALLY in the waterbox doing a burnout when there is NO airflow across the front of the vehicle. I used both a/a and a/w on my twin turbo setup when i had my Lightning. the a/a fell short on the big end and started pulling timing at about 1/8 mile due to high iats. but i was also running pump gas and 17psi so that probably had something to do with it.. I never ran the truck down the track with the a/w but i can tell you with ice in the res the iats on the street on a hot day for one long pull to about 120 or so were in the 80s... heres pics of both my setups..


both turbos "Y'd" together and a modified cobra HE..

Custom built water tank under the passenger floor with 3500gph water pump



1500HP air to water intercooler core under custom intake hat in stock location
1 1/4" water lines throughout..



And air to air.... pretty simple..

__________________
1040/998 RWHP/RWTQ Lightning-Sold
1971 Camaro awaiting some TLC- sitting in my garage

Casey02L

You dont think the A/A was a little small for the application? Seems a bigger A/A would have done better at keeping to cool going down the track. Especially with our very large front ends on these trucks.

__________________
XXX MotorSports
1.31 5.87@117.54
BS3, 3.4 Whipple, NX, TH400, 9"

FKASRT

Mine isabout double that size

oiN8io

The a/a was definitly too small for the application. I was keeping the cost down by using that particular one. A bigger one as well as getting the air filters out of the engine bay would be the ticket! I was personally a much bigger fan of the ease of the a/a IC and on the nex turbo system I build I'll use a Bell a/a IC core sized properly.. Nothing out ther better. If you want an added cooling affect in the water box at the track just put a n2o spray bar on the IC core..

5.0Stanger

Not to hijack the thread too much:

Nate, sorry that you sold your L. I remember reading that TT build-up thread.

black bullet

Well i am going to do both, just to see. I have though about all the points you brought up oiN8io, very smart person. and love your TT build, But i am hard headed person, i know i can make it work, I just bought a TRUE FORGED icey res the other day. i bought the big tank one, not the little washer tank one. also ordered a A/A today. I have had all the piping for 2 months now, I am just gathering parts little by little.

Gen1SVE

If you have the space and fresh air supply for a large air to air, there is not much that can beat that without using ice. I have a powerstroke intercooler on my first gen and the intake air temperature drops until I close the throttle even on the dyno. I have Never seen the intake temperature rise due to heat soak, summer or otherwise. I have also never seen how low the intake temperatire can go as the heat in the intake heats the sensor until the cold air from the IC pulls it down. When I drive on the highway then into the city for 10 minutes the throttle body and upperintake are still cold when I get parked, and there is minimal maintenance. I am switching from a air to water on my mustang to air to air. I bet it will pick up due to a larger core and lower intake temps. My air to water was showing 130 on the dyno with ice in the tank @ 20psi.

1fst54

What's the biggest core size with end tanks that will fit between the frame rails? 24x12x3.5?
Could you fit a 24x18x3.5/4.5?

black bullet

well i today i mesered frame rail to frame rail, it was just a little under 28 1/2 in's

Sinister04L

After the air passes through the intercooler it won't continue to cool down it will heat back up due to friction and the temperature of the piping, etc. The longer it has to travel the more it will heat up. We're talking about relatively small distances so it shouldn't make that much difference.

It doesn't sound like your set up was very efficient. On the dyno, iced down, @ 26psi through an 88mm turbo my IAT2's were 58-60 degrees through the entire run. IAT1's were well over 100*. While doing my pump gas street tune with no ice the IAT2's were in the 110-120* range, also with IAT1's well over 100*. It's even better out on the road with the heat exchanger working.

I'd put my A-W system up against any A-A system for effectiveness.

1fst54

WoW, that's a bold statement...no pun intended.
Edit: on the street? Dyno? Or Track?

Sinister04L

On the dyno and track the A-W wins in a landslide due to the ability to use ice. I was referring to the street.