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Old 02-11-2009, 06:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm glad I don't have to deal with the e85 yet. We still have real gas here. The station owner put signs on the pumps stating it was ethanol free gas.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Edited the post to name author!

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Old 02-11-2009, 05:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Wideband sensors and an Interceptor for monitoring will eliminate concern for the everyday "Joe" that might be on the "edge".
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z7What View Post
Here are a few common fuel types and their approximate stoich value. Each of these stoich values are also represented as a lambda of 1.00:

* Unleaded 93 octane: 14.64
* E5 93 octane: 14.35
* E10 93 octane: 14.08
* E15 93 octane: 13.79
* VP C16: 14.77
* e85: 9.76
* e100: 9.00

Now say you want a richer mixture for a supercharged car under boost – typically I will command about 0.80 lambda. To get this into an air to fuel ratio you will take the stoichimetric value of your fuel (14.64 in this example) and multiply it by the lambda – 0.80 * 14.64 = 11.712:1. In order to use your O2 sensor and meter you must know the stoich point (14.64 used in the previous equation) if converting the O2 output to A/F and one can only use a wideband sensor for output not a narrow band sensor.

Wayne
I think I understand alittle.... Using the info from above, if I'm running 93 my A/F will be 11.712:1, but if filled up with E10 then I need to tune to get my A/F to show 11.264:1 (14.08 * .80) to be safe?????


Ray
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtkjadams View Post
I think I understand alittle.... Using the info from above, if I'm running 93 my A/F will be 11.712:1, but if filled up with E10 then I need to tune to get my A/F to show 11.264:1 (14.08 * .80) to be safe?????


Ray
Thats the way i understand it.

Wayne
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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wayne, thanks for posting the write ups, i will be reading as more come!

i have a question. where i live they say the gas contains up to 10% ethanol. so does that mean my gas has E10 in it??

i found this on the sunoco web site:

"In compliance with federal law and as stipulated by most automobile manufacturers, Sunoco gasolines contain no more than 10% ethanol."

i have never used race fuel or any higher ethanol fuel, but it appears i should be aware if i do.
how can we measure for this and change our readings so we are reading the correct and "true" A/F??

Sean
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lightning25 View Post
wayne, thanks for posting the write ups, i will be reading as more come!

i have a question. where i live they say the gas contains up to 10% ethanol. so does that mean my gas has E10 in it??

i found this on the sunoco web site:

"In compliance with federal law and as stipulated by most automobile manufacturers, Sunoco gasolines contain no more than 10% ethanol."

i have never used race fuel or any higher ethanol fuel, but it appears i should be aware if i do.
how can we measure for this and change our readings so we are reading the correct and "true" A/F??

Sean
Sean, i am not expert nor did i write this but have been studying and speaking with the person that did write it. When you see contains no more than 10% ethanol on the pumps that IS E10 fuel!

The way i see it is that if you are tuned for lets say a 11.6 A/F @ WOT on straight gas and then run E10 you want to be tuned for an 11.04 A/F @ WOT to make up for the difference in stoich.

Wayne
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:47 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Does the WB show leaner if you switch to E10? Or does it show the same A/F reading but the truck is actually running leaner????


Thanks,

Ray
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:53 AM   #24 (permalink)
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The way I under stand it is that it will show the same but it will be lean.
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:20 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Humm... 11.264 is safe for E10 (AKA 93+10% Ethanol)
Well I asked JDM yesterday if they took into account for E10 in their tunes and they said that yes... they did. I'm currently on my break-in tune and haven't gotten into the boost at all yet, but when I get onto the throttle a bit on the HW to pass, I'll let my boost go all the way to 0 and my AEM Wideband will read as low as 10.8 right before it shifts. So that would be a tidge lean... correct? So I think it would be safe to say that if/when I get into the boost that it will be really lean. I'm just guessing here, because I haven't done it yet. But the truck idles @ around 15-16... which is really rich.
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Old 02-13-2009, 01:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autenb View Post
Humm... 11.264 is safe for E10 (AKA 93+10% Ethanol)
Well I asked JDM yesterday if they took into account for E10 in their tunes and they said that yes... they did. I'm currently on my break-in tune and haven't gotten into the boost at all yet, but when I get onto the throttle a bit on the HW to pass, I'll let my boost go all the way to 0 and my AEM Wideband will read as low as 10.8 right before it shifts. So that would be a tidge lean... correct? So I think it would be safe to say that if/when I get into the boost that it will be really lean. I'm just guessing here, because I haven't done it yet. But the truck idles @ around 15-16... which is really rich.


Your assumptions are backwards...

Last edited by SAL; 02-13-2009 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:45 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Sal is correct the high number lean, lower number rich. Meaning a 10.80 is richer than a 14.4

And it sounds like you have a nice safe tune! With those A/F numbers.

Wayne
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So... since it's 15.5 while cruising... and as high as 16 and my meter even reads -- when i'm @ idle sometimes... That's lean, but it's ok, since there's no load on it?
But... 10 and 11 is GOOD when i'm giving it throttle... but 13 or 14 while i'm giving it throttle is NOT good? (sorry... i'm trying to grasp a concept here.)
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:01 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autenb View Post
So... since it's 15.5 while cruising... and as high as 16 and my meter even reads -- when i'm @ idle sometimes... That's lean, but it's ok, since there's no load on it?
But... 10 and 11 is GOOD when i'm giving it throttle... but 13 or 14 while i'm giving it throttle is NOT good? (sorry... i'm trying to grasp a concept here.)
Correct!

Wayne
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
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so here's the back breaker... how lean does it have to be before it causes detonation? I mean... since it runs @ 14.7-15.5 while @ 2Krmp @ 65mph... does that mean that it is very likely detonating?
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